Philippians 2:7 Specifically ἑαυτὸν

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
So even though the text says plainly that the word was God, you continue to think John lied or was confused? How are you any different from those Biden supporters who think that Israel was to blame for the rockets fired at them?
No more "plainly" than it calls created people and things "gods" in John 10:34, Phil. 3:19, etc. .

Another reason why you should be banned from reading the bible -- inability to understand the range and function of the Greek word θεός in the bible.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
No more "plainly" than it calls men "gods" in John 10:34.

Another reason why you should be banned from reading the bible -- inability to understand the range and function of the Greek word θεός in the bible.
Apples to oranges. When the Bible also says that those men brought all things into creation, then we'll talk. For all your bluster, it is you who lacks basic reading ability dans n'importe quelle langue.
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
Apples to oranges. When the Bible also says that those men brought all things into creation, then we'll talk. For all your bluster, it is you who lacks basic reading ability dans n'importe quelle langue.

The bible doesn't say "the Logos brought all things into creation." Yet another reason to ban yourself (from reading the bible) -- for twisting the words of a verse of scripture.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
No, just that you're twisting the words of the bible. John 1:3 does not say "the Logos brought all things into Creation." Only a liar in the same league as Trump would say such a thing with a straight face.
That's exactly what it says.
By the way, did you vote for him?
The only thing more disgusting than politics is those who inject them into everything. I'm sure there's another forum for that. Go there with that garbage.
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
That's exactly what it says.

The only thing more disgusting than politics is those who inject them into everything. I'm sure there's another forum for that. Go there with that garbage.
No. This is the Greek:

πάντα δι’ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο,
All things were created through it. Not that "he created all things." The text is saying that God created all things through the Logos.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
No. This is the Greek:


All things were created through it. Not that "he created all things." The text is saying that God created all things through the Logos.
I guess all things were created through God the Father, too, huh?
ὅτι ἐξ αὐτοῦ καὶ δι’ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν τὰ πάντα·αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
That does nothing to make your troubles go away.
I don't have any troubles. If one removes the insults and bare unfounded assertions from your posts to me you are left with precious little left, like this.

The fact is that I have a solid grammatical foundation for my expository rendering.

The fact that asyndeton can be contrastive in this genre deflates your key objection to vapour.

You are speechless.

:)
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
I guess all things were created through God the Father, too, huh?
ὅτι ἐξ αὐτοῦ καὶ δι αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν τὰ πάντα·αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.
See you're twisting the scriptures again. The English is as follows, for those who cannot follow the Greek:

For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.

And here is the surrounding context:

Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! 34“Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” 35“Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them?” k 36For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.


First of all, notice this scripture does not say "through him all things are created," just ".....through him..... all things are." The "things" here likely have nothing to do with the physical creation like the sun and moon, but intangibles like knowledge, judgments, counsel and so on, if one inspects the immediately surrounding context. But even if we read the physical creation into this, it is true that all things were created through the Father since the Logos (through which the Universe was created) was not an independent agent, it could do nothing by itself.

But beyond that, the text asserts that "from" (ἐξ) Him are all things. This is the province only of God, something which is never asserted about Logos in the bible.
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
Cambridge Bible is on the right track on this score:

He is not the Source only, but the Means. He did not only originate all things, but incessantly sustains and overrules all. In the special case of the saints, He not only wills their salvation, but—through their regenerated will—gives them power to believe and persevere. “He keeps them, by His power, through faith, unto salvation.” (1 Peter 1:5. See too Phil. 2:13 .)

The maxim "He is not the Source only, but the Means" is apt indeed as pertains God. The Logos, on the other hand is never said to be "the source," only "the means" as far as Creation is concerned.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
I don't have any troubles. If one removes the insults and bare unfounded assertions from your posts to me you are left with precious little left, like this.

The fact is that I have a solid grammatical foundation for my expository rendering.

The fact that asyndeton can be contrastive in this genre deflates your key objection to vapour.

You are speechless.

:)
You've made a spectacle of yourself. Bravo. You know you are wrong; everyone who can read knows you are wrong. I'm content with that.
 

John Milton

Well-known member
Cambridge Bible is on the right track on this score:



The maxim "He is not the Source only, but the Means" is apt indeed as pertains God. The Logos, on the other hand is never said to be "the source," only "the means" as far as Creation is concerned.
It's an artificial distinction. But why do I bother? Both of you are too willfully dumb to be corrected.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
I guess all things were created through God the Father, too, huh?
ὅτι ἐξ αὐτοῦ καὶ δι’ αὐτοῦ καὶ εἰς αὐτὸν τὰ πάντα·αὐτῷ ἡ δόξα εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.

Not according to BDAG.

Don't you love BDAG? I do. :)

BDAG δια
b. with focus on the originator of an action (Hom. et al.; pap, LXX, EpArist)
α. of human activity (PSI 354, 6 [254 BC] τὸν χόρτον τὸν συνηγμένον δι᾿ ἡμῶν=by us;500, 5; 527, 12; 1 Esdr 6:13; 2 Macc 6:21; 4 Macc 1:11) 2 Cor 1:11 (where διὰ πολλῶν resumes ἐκ πολλῶν προσώπων). ᾧ παρέλαβε κανόνι διὰ τῶν μακαρίων προφήτων καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου εὐαγγελίου AcPlCor 2:36.

β. of divine activity:—of God (Aeschyl., Ag. 1485; Pla., Symp. 186e ἡ ἰατρικὴ πᾶσα διὰ τ. θεοῦ τούτου [Asclepius] κυβερνᾶται; Ael. Aristid., Sarap. [Or. 8 Dind.=45 Keil] 14 K. πάντα γὰρ πανταχοῦ διὰ σοῦ τε καὶ διὰ σὲ ἡμῖν γίγνεται; Zosimus in CALG p. 143 and a magic ring in introd. 133; EpArist 313) 1 Cor 1:9 δι᾿ οὗ ἐκλήθητε (v.l. ὑπό s. καλέω 4); Ro 11:36 (s. Norden, Agn. Th. 240-50; 347f);
 

John Milton

Well-known member
Not according to BDAG.

Don't you love BDAG? I do. :)

BDAG δια
b. with focus on the originator of an action (Hom. et al.; pap, LXX, EpArist)
α. of human activity (PSI 354, 6 [254 BC] τὸν χόρτον τὸν συνηγμένον δι᾿ ἡμῶν=by us;500, 5; 527, 12; 1 Esdr 6:13; 2 Macc 6:21; 4 Macc 1:11) 2 Cor 1:11 (where διὰ πολλῶν resumes ἐκ πολλῶν προσώπων). ᾧ παρέλαβε κανόνι διὰ τῶν μακαρίων προφήτων καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου εὐαγγελίου AcPlCor 2:36.

β. of divine activity:—of God (Aeschyl., Ag. 1485; Pla., Symp. 186e ἡ ἰατρικὴ πᾶσα διὰ τ. θεοῦ τούτου [Asclepius] κυβερνᾶται; Ael. Aristid., Sarap. [Or. 8 Dind.=45 Keil] 14 K. πάντα γὰρ πανταχοῦ διὰ σοῦ τε καὶ διὰ σὲ ἡμῖν γίγνεται; Zosimus in CALG p. 143 and a magic ring in introd. 133; EpArist 313) 1 Cor 1:9 δι᾿ οὗ ἐκλήθητε (v.l. ὑπό s. καλέω 4); Ro 11:36 (s. Norden, Agn. Th. 240-50; 347f);
BDAG confirms what I have already said. You understand so little that you think otherwise.
 
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