Pierced to the Heart

S

Sethproton

Well-known member
Acts 2:37+38 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Calvinist should notice the order of events. The last one in this particular sequence is receiving the Holy Spirit, which is what regenerates a person.
But here is the sequence:
They heard
Were pierced to the heart
They asked what they should do
They should repent
Be baptized
Then they would receive the Spirit
 
T

TomFL

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
Acts 2:37+38 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Calvinist should notice the order of events. The last one in this particular sequence is receiving the Holy Spirit, which is what regenerates a person.
But here is the sequence:
They heard
Were pierced to the heart
They asked what they should do
They should repent
Be baptized
Then they would receive the Spirit
Click to expand...
There are many verses which show reception of the spirit and regeneration are preceded by faith
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
The Holy Spirit worked in them previously. Like, let's say; the speaking of cloven Tongues and the interpretation thereof...

But even when Regeneration is not mentioned in a text, it's there as a whole due to all of the Bible; you don't do Theology like that. Even though the Trinity isn't mentioned in the Passage, is no reason to say the Trinity isn't true. Because Baptism IS in the Passage, doesn't mean it's part of the Gospel...
 
civic

civic

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
The Holy Spirit worked in them previously. Like, let's say; the speaking of cloven Tongues and the interpretation thereof...

But even when Regeneration is not mentioned in a text, it's there as a whole due to all of the Bible. Even though the Trinity isn't mentioned in the Passage, is no reason to say the Trinity isn't true. Because Baptism IS in the Passage, doesn't mean it's part of the Gospel...
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Yes the OP is an "argument" from silence regarding Gods Sovereignty and regeneration.
 
civic

civic

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
On it's face it's a good point; and that's how they gain points with the unlearned and those of like Mind with itching ears. Even when the one scratching their ears doesn't believe in the bodily Resurrection...

But that's a Genetic Fallacy...
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He is hilarious as he asks us what he is afraid to ask his CALVINIST pastor lol. A real wolf is sheeps clothing. A double minded man unstable in all his ways as James tells us. I also like the mirror illustration as it applies in this situation.
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Using his logic, Water Baptism is the Gospel because of it's inclusion in the Snippet. Regeneration before Faith is wrong because of it's lack of inclusion in the Snippet? The Holy Ghost worked in the Hearers before that Snippet. Last I heard, translating Tongues was a gift of...

The Spirit...
 
ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
Using his logic, Water Baptism is the Gospel because of it's inclusion in the Snippet. Regeneration before Faith is wrong because of it's lack of inclusion in the Snippet? The Holy Ghost worked in the Hearers before that Snippet. Last I heard, translating Tongues was a gift of...

The Spirit...
Click to expand...
This is an example of that side trying too hard to win. They find a pearl in a field and sell all they have to buy the field just for the pearl of great price. What did they sell? The rest of Scripture. The rest of Scripture says they are Totally Unable without Grace prevening even their Will and making a 'real' difference in their Salvation. Both the OP and TomL agreed with this; for a minute. I tend to get frustrated with people who Patronize me because they know my point is perfect; but all they're doing is brushing me off until they can find someone else to start arguing their point with, all over again...

I like to think the best of Christians; but that just seems deceitful. So my point that we need to beat them to the Lurkers and the Lost, is pertinent; because when we raise a child in the way he should go, they will not depart from it. No one has changed their Mind since I've been here, we've GOT TO win the next generation of Saints...
 
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ReverendRV

ReverendRV

Well-known member
civic said:
He is hilarious as he asks us what he is afraid to ask his CALVINIST pastor lol. A real wolf is sheeps clothing. A double minded man unstable in all his ways as James tells us. I also like the mirror illustration as it applies in this situation.
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The OP answered one Poster, then left...
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
Sethproton said:
Acts 2:37+38 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Calvinist should notice the order of events.
Click to expand...

<sigh>
We DO "notice the order of events".

Can you please stop ASSUMING that the reason we disagree with you is because we are allegedly "ignorant" of Scripture? It is insulting and uncharitable, Seth.

The last one in this particular sequence is receiving the Holy Spirit, which is what regenerates a person.
Click to expand...

That is YOUR assumption.
Since it is not Biblical, there is no reason for us to accept your ASSUMPTION.
 
Theo1689

Theo1689

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
This is an example of that side trying too hard to win. They find a pearl in a field and sell all they have to buy the field just for the pearl of great price. What did they sell? The rest of Scripture. The rest of Scripture says they are Totally Unable without Grace prevening even their Will and making a 'real' difference in their Salvation. Both the OP and TomL agreed with this; for a minute. I tend to get frustrated with people who Patronize me because they know my point is perfect; but all they're doing is brushing me off until they can find someone else to start arguing their point with, all over again...
Click to expand...

This is similar to a post I'm thinking of writing later today. See if it catches something close to what you're saying.

I like to think the best of Christians; but that just seems deceitful. So my point that we need to beat them to the Lurkers and the Lost, is pertinent; because when we raise a child in the way he should go, they will not depart from it. No one has changed their Mind since I've been here, we've GOT TO win the next generation of Saints...
Click to expand...

I would have to disagree with a couple of things:

1) I believe I've seen one or two people here changing their mind. Typically they leave the forum for a period of months while they work through the issues, and then come back with a changed position. I can't remember any nicks, however...

2) I think one of the things we need to make sure lurkers understand is that (contrary to a few hyper-Arminians here), the A/C issue is an "in-house" debate, with (for the most part) both sides agreeing that those on the other side of fence are still saved.
 
S

Sethproton

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
The Holy Spirit worked in them previously. Like, let's say; the speaking of cloven Tongues and the interpretation thereof...

But even when Regeneration is not mentioned in a text, it's there as a whole due to all of the Bible; you don't do Theology like that. Even though the Trinity isn't mentioned in the Passage, is no reason to say the Trinity isn't true. Because Baptism IS in the Passage, doesn't mean it's part of the Gospel...
Click to expand...
You want to ignore that Luke places the indwelling Spirit at the end of these events?
 
S

Sethproton

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
The Holy Spirit worked in them previously. Like, let's say; the speaking of cloven Tongues and the interpretation thereof...

But even when Regeneration is not mentioned in a text, it's there as a whole due to all of the Bible; you don't do Theology like that. Even though the Trinity isn't mentioned in the Passage, is no reason to say the Trinity isn't true. Because Baptism IS in the Passage, doesn't mean it's part of the Gospel...
Click to expand...
When the Spirit is given, that is who regenerates them. Most of the church understands that regeneration occurs with the indwelling.
 
S

Sethproton

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
On it's face it's a good point; and that's how they gain points with the unlearned and those of like Mind with itching ears. Even when the one scratching their ears doesn't believe in the bodily Resurrection...
Click to expand...
Of course it is a good point, it was taken directly black and white from Scripture, in context.
Your reservation is that it does not align with your doctrine.
 
S

Sethproton

Well-known member
ReverendRV said:
Using his logic, Water Baptism is the Gospel because of it's inclusion in the Snippet. Regeneration before Faith is wrong because of it's lack of inclusion in the Snippet? The Holy Ghost worked in the Hearers before that Snippet. Last I heard, translating Tongues was a gift of...

The Spirit...
Click to expand...
Prophesy is also a fruit of the indwelling spirit, but the OT has prophets who were not indwelt, because the Spirit had not yet been given.
God can manifest the gifts in anyone He chooses.
The promise of the Father, the indwelling Spirit, came at pentecost
 
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