Please explain what the Apostle Paul stated at Philippians 2:7-8

Since you believe that Jesus Christ is a man only with only one nature, i.e human being then please explain what the Apostle Paul stated at Philippians 2:7-8? "but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Verse 8, And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."

Moreover, since Jesus is a 100% human being why does the writer of Hebrews at Hebrews 5:7 say, "In the days of His flesh." Or at Hebrews 10:5, "Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, "Sacrifice and offering Thou hast not desired, But a Body Thou hast prepared for Me."

So to sum up! You say Jesus is a 100% human man with only one nature, that is human being. Why is it regarding the verses I posted have to explain this man Jesus becoming a human being and had to have a body prepared for Him?

In Him
herman

I believe that from the moment of creation Jesus was a human with a glorious body (just like he is now). But when he was born to Mary he exchanged his glorious body for a mortal body.

So the "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in likeness of men" refers to when Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins.

Now, how do YOU explain it?


Trinitarians normally say "what he was, he remained" and "human nature was assumed". (Catholic Catechism 469-470) So nothing was "given up" so to speak.

Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
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Stephen

Active member
who, though he was in the form of God,
did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
but emptied himself,
by taking the form of a servant,

It is pretty straightforward.

He was in the form of God, (like Adam).
He didn't reach for equality with God, (unlike Adam),
But rather, he emptied himself and did what Adam didn't do
He submitted himself to God as a servant
He served the entirety of his mortal life, even to the point of death, death on the cross (unlike Adam)
 
who, though he was in the form of God,
did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
but emptied himself,
by taking the form of a servant,

It is pretty straightforward.

He was in the form of God, (like Adam).
He didn't reach for equality with God, (unlike Adam),
But rather, he emptied himself and did what Adam didn't do
He submitted himself to God as a servant
He served the entirety of his mortal life, even to the point of death, death on the cross (unlike Adam)
Nonsense!
Jesus existed in one form, Philippians 2, vs. 6, but took upon himself another form, vs. 7.
What was Jesus’ form before? If he was literally, actually a man afterward what was he literally, actually before?
Philippians 2:6-11 6. Who, being [continual existence] in the form [μορφη] of God, thought it not robbery [something to be grasped] to be equal with God:
(Greek Interlinear) Philippians 2:6-11 ος {who,} εν {in [the]} μορφη {form} θεου {of god} υπαρχων {subsisting,} ουχ {not} αρπαγμον {something to be used to his own advantage} ηγησατο το {esteemed it} ειναι {the being} ισα {equal} θεω {with god;}
The verb ειναι, translated ”to be,” in the KJV, which appears to be a future tense in English, is a present infinitive, not a future tense. “the being equal with god,” was a, then, present reality not something considered and rejected.
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him[self] the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:​
Jesus’ earthly ministry occurred between verses, 7 and 8. Where the one who was equal with God, vs. 6, the one who, acting upon himself, became flesh, cf. John 1:14, made himself of no reputation, vs. 7, cf. Heb 2:17, took upon himself the form of a servant, and was in the likeness of men, vs. 7. After which God, not merely exalted him, but “highly exalted” him, and glorified him with the same glory he had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5)
It was here where all the things anti-Trinitarians cannot comprehend happened, e.g. “If Jesus was God, why didn’t he know the hour of his return?” etc., etc., etc.
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.​
If Jesus was only a mere human being, how does a human being, “humble himself and become obedient unto death?” All mankind is appointed to death, no obedience or humbling involved! Heb 9:27. Were the criminals who were crucified with Jesus also obedient, did they also humble themselves unto death on the cross?
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, cf. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, cf. [ יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] to the glory of God the Father.​
In verses 10,11 Paul applies Isaiah 45:23, which refers to יהוה/YHWH], to Jesus as I have shown above!
 

Stephen

Active member
Nonsense!
Jesus existed in one form, Philippians 2, vs. 6, but took upon himself another form, vs. 7.
What was Jesus’ form before? If he was literally, actually a man afterward what was he literally, actually before?

These particular questions are striking for their abuse of scripture:
  • First, the bible never states that there was a "before" form and and "after" form. The bible says Jesus continually existed "in the form of God". There is no before and after.
  • Second, the bible doesn't state that Jesus was in the form of "a man", it actually says Jesus was in the "form of a servant". The second question is based on poor reading of scripture rather than anything the bible actually says.

Paul introduces the passage, as guide to the believer's behavior. You are in the form of God (like the man and woman), and you are supposed to take on the form of a servant. You don't stop being in the form of God when you are in the form of a servant.

Philippians 2:6-11 6. Who, being [continual existence] in the form [μορφη] of God, thought it not robbery [something to be grasped] to be equal with God:

(Greek Interlinear) Philippians 2:6-11 ος {who,} εν {in [the]} μορφη {form} θεου {of god} υπαρχων {subsisting,} ουχ {not} αρπαγμον {something to be used to his own advantage} ηγησατο το {esteemed it} ειναι {the being} ισα {equal} θεω {with god;}
The verb ειναι, translated ”to be,” in the KJV, which appears to be a future tense in English, is a present infinitive, not a future tense. “the being equal with god,” was a, then, present reality not something considered and rejected.

As if to back up my understanding, and deny the premise of the two questions above, the Greek scholar affirms my understanding that Jesus always existed in the form of God, just like you and I do. There was no "before" and "after".

Paul begins his instruction on what mind should be in us. BJesus didn't consider being equal with God as something to be grasped, this is unlike Adam and Eve who did consider it. And likewise, we should do this also.

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him[self] the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Jesus’ earthly ministry occurred between verses, 7 and 8. Where the one who was equal with God, vs. 6, the one who, acting upon himself, became flesh, cf. John 1:14, made himself of no reputation, vs. 7, cf. Heb 2:17, took upon himself the form of a servant, and was in the likeness of men, vs. 7. After which God, not merely exalted him, but “highly exalted” him, and glorified him with the same glory he had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5)
It was here where all the things anti-Trinitarians cannot comprehend happened, e.g. “If Jesus was God, why didn’t he know the hour of his return?” etc., etc., etc.

Here, the premise of Paul's exposition is directly denied for the sake a doctrine. Paul's premise is "let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus". But for the sake of doctrine, verses 6-7 are determined to be non-applicable to us humans, we only have verse 8 as instruction.

However, in the view consistent with Paul's entire message, he requests that the Philippians have this mind of Christ, he asks them to make themselves of no reputation and take upon themselves the form of servants because they also are made in the likeness of men.


8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
If Jesus was only a mere human being, how does a human being, “humble himself and become obedient unto death?” All mankind is appointed to death, no obedience or humbling involved! Heb 9:27. Were the criminals who were crucified with Jesus also obedient, did they also humble themselves unto death on the cross?

Jesus humbled himself and became obedient even unto death. This indicates that Jesus grew in his level of obedience and his father asked greater and greater things of him. Just like a good father should do.

This is the same for us, we are asked for greater and greater things as we get older. We should grow in our walk with God. The martyrs that came before us, who were also human beings, were also obedient unto death, Paul, Peter, and Stephen among them.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, cf. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, cf. [ יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] to the glory of God the Father.
In verses 10,11 Paul applies Isaiah 45:23, which refers to יהוה/YHWH], to Jesus as I have shown above!

So here, Jesus is honored by God, to the glory of another, as we hope to be.
 

herman

Member
I believe that from the moment of creation Jesus was a human with a glorious body (just like he is now). But when he was born to Mary he exchanged his glorious body for a mortal body.

So the "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in likeness of men" refers to when Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins.

Now, how do YOU explain it?


Trinitarians normally say "what he was, he remained" and "human nature was assumed". (Catholic Catechism 469-470) So nothing was "given up" so to speak.

Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
Ok, so you believe that Jesus Christ was a created being just like the rest of us. I don't understand about where or when did Jesus get this glorious body? I mean I was not created with a glorious body and neither were you, so what does that mean?

In Him,
herman
 
...As if to back up my understanding, and deny the premise of the two questions above, the Greek scholar affirms my understanding that Jesus always existed in the form of God, just like you and I do. There was no "before" and "after".
Paul begins his instruction on what mind should be in us. BJesus didn't consider being equal with God as something to be grasped, this is unlike Adam and Eve who did consider it. And likewise, we should do this also....
This response is nothing more than I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" Merely saying I am wrong and presenting what you think is correct does not prove me wrong. You must provide credible evidence that that my conclusions are wrong and yours are correct.
I won't address the entire post just these two major errors. Saying "Greek scholars affirm" means diddly squat. Which scholars said it and where?
.....We do NOT exist in the form of God. We were created in the image of God. Only Jesus is said to have existed in the form of God.
.....Philp 2:6 does NOT say "Jesus didn't consider being equal with God as something to be grasped." Try actually reading my post where I define each word.

Philippians 2:6-11 6. Who, being [continual existence] in the form [μορφη] of God, thought it not robbery [something to be grasped] to be equal with God:

(Greek Interlinear) Philippians 2:6-11 ος {who,} εν {in [the]} μορφη {form} θεου {of god} υπαρχων {subsisting,} ουχ {not} αρπαγμον {something to be used to his own advantage} ηγησατο το {esteemed it} ειναι {the being} ισα {equal} θεω {with god;}

The verb ειναι, translated ”to be,” in the KJV, which appears to be a future tense in English, is a present infinitive, not a future tense. “the being equal with god,” was a, then, present reality not something considered and rejected.
See full translators notes at: Bible Gateway NIV Translator’s Notes[/indent]
A short excerpt from the 25 page Harvard theological review article αρπαγμον /harpagmos, by Roy Hoover, referenced in the NIV.
O petros de arpagmon ton dia stavrou thanton epoieito dia tas soterious elpidas
(And Peter considered death by means of the cross harpagmon on account of the hope of salvation, Comm in Luc 6)
Tines…ton thanaton arpagma themenoi ten ton dussebon moxtherias
(Since some regarded death as harpagma in comparison with the depravity of ungodly men. Hist. Eccl VCIII,12.2)
Not only are arpagma and arpagmos used synonymously in these two statements, but they are used synonymously by the same author in reference to the same object—death—and in expressions whose form precisely parallels that of the arpagmos remark in Phil 2:6.
What [Eusebius] wants to say, rather, is that because of the hope of salvation crucifixion was not a horror to be shunned, but an advantage to be seized.
“Arpagma” is used exactly this way in Hist. Eccl. VIII,12.2. At this point Eusebius is recounting the sufferings of Christians in periods of persecution. Some believers in order to escape torture threw themselves down from rooftops. There can be no suggestion of “robbery” or of violent self-assertion in this remark, nor can self-inflicted death under such circumstances be considered an unanticipated windfall.
Roy W. Hoover, Harvard Theological Review (1971) 95-119, pg. 108
Link to: Hoover Article
 
Note: There is one question for you at the bottom of this post.


Ok, so you believe that Jesus Christ was a created being just like the rest of us. I don't understand about where or when did Jesus get this glorious body?

No. I believe Jesus is the being YHWH manifest as a human, so YHWH and Jesus are the same being.

Much like you would say the Word and the man Christ Jesus (the Word manifest as a human) are the same being.

I believe YHWH manifest as a human with a glorious body at the moment he created this universe. That is the body he used to walk with Adam and wrestle with Jacob etc.

I word it this way in my overview...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.


I mean I was not created with a glorious body and neither were you, so what does that mean?

It means that you and I are not God's "only begotten" Son ("only one of its kind").

I word it this way in my overview...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.


Question...

Hebrews 1:5... For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

WHEN does "this day" in Hebrews 1:5 refer to?
A) the moment of the creation of the universe
B) Jesus' conception
C) Jesus' birth
D) Jesus' death
E) Jesus' resurrection
F) Jesus' ascension
G) Jesus' return
H) other, please explain

I say A.

I word it this way in my overview...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

Stephen

Active member
This response is nothing more than I'm right and you're wrong! Am too! Nuh huh!" Merely saying I am wrong and presenting what you think is correct does not prove me wrong. You must provide credible evidence that that my conclusions are wrong and yours are correct.
I won't address the entire post just these two major errors. Saying "Greek scholars affirm" means diddly squat. Which scholars said it and where?

The ones you cited. Didn't you even read in your own post? It was your own analysis. Your own citations agree with me that Jesus was in "continual existence" in the form of God.

.....We do NOT exist in the form of God. We were created in the image of God. Only Jesus is said to have existed in the form of God.

Well ok then. So per your analysis, Jesus walked around on the earth in the form of God.

.....Philp 2:6 does NOT say "Jesus didn't consider being equal with God as something to be grasped." Try actually reading my post where I define each word.

You got me, I used a contraction. It actually says "did not".
  • New International Version - he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.
  • English Standard Version - did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
  • Berean Study Bible - did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
  • Berean Literal Bible - did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,
  • New American Standard Bible - did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
  • Christian Standard Bible - who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.
  • NET Bible - did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,
 
The ones you cited. Didn't you even read in your own post? It was your own analysis. Your own citations agree with me that Jesus was in "continual existence" in the form of God.
Well ok then. So per your analysis, Jesus walked around on the earth in the form of God.
You got me, I used a contraction. It actually says "did not".New International Version - he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

English Standard Version - did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
  • Berean Study Bible - did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
  • Berean Literal Bible - did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,
  • New American Standard Bible - did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
  • Christian Standard Bible - who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be exploited.
  • NET Bible - did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped,
Versions are irrelevant without the relevant scholarship which I have provided more than once.
Everything but NIV is WRONG. The verb incorrectly translated "to be" is a PRESENT active infinity. NOT a future tense!
"The being equal with God" was a then present reality NOT something Jesus did not want or chose not to do!
Might I suggest you read the 25 page Harvard article I quoted and linked to? Please do yourself a favor and find a parsed NT which shows the tense, mood etc. of the verbs. E.g. this one,
 

Stephen

Active member
Everything but NIV is WRONG.

This is a rather bold claim regarding Philippians 2:6.

I'll confess that I am not in a position to make such judgments about the translation of a singular word that is hotly debated (per your sources).


However, in context, Paul is commanding us to have the same mind as Christ does. Translations that give instructions that are not compatible with the context should be rejected.
 
This is a rather bold claim regarding Philippians 2:6.
I'll confess that I am not in a position to make such judgments about the translation of a singular word that is hotly debated (per your sources).
However, in context, Paul is commanding us to have the same mind as Christ does. Translations that give instructions that are not compatible with the context should be rejected.
Please explain to me how anything I posted is not compatible with the context?
Again I suggest consult a parsed interlinear, then look up the meaning of "present active infinitive?"
As I said NIV is correct. "he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to." Jesus had to have equality with God to cling to it.
το [the] ειναι [being] ισα [equal]
 

Stephen

Active member
Please explain to me how anything I posted is not compatible with the context?

The passage declares,

Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
who, though he was in the form of God,
did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,
being born in the likeness of men.
And being found in human form,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross.

You directly deny that the
  • 2nd line has any connection to us by saying: We do NOT exist in the form of God. We were created in the image of God.
  • 3rd line has any connection to us by saying that Christ had to be equal with God, thus severing all connection to us.
  • 4th line has any connection to us by saying Jesus took the form of a man rather than the form of a servant

You begin your exposition of how we should be like Christ by denying that Christ is anything like us. Paul's core instruction is that we be like him.

Again I suggest consult a parsed interlinear, then look up the meaning of "present active infinitive?"

And then I will read translations and commentaries in English.


As I said NIV is correct. "he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to." Jesus had to have equality with God to cling to it.
το [the] ειναι [being] ισα [equal]

Demonstrating at least two things
  • Jesus isn't God.
  • Paul is a false prophet as Jesus said his father (God) was greater than him
Or I could go with a translation that doesn't directly contradict the clear words of Jesus.
 
The passage declares,
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
who, though he was in the form of God,
did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,
being born in the likeness of men.
And being found in human form,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross.
You directly deny that the

2nd line has any connection to us by saying: We do NOT exist in the form of God. We were created in the image of God.
  • 3rd line has any connection to us by saying that Christ had to be equal with God, thus severing all connection to us.
  • 4th line has any connection to us by saying Jesus took the form of a man rather than the form of a servant
You begin your exposition of how we should be like Christ by denying that Christ is anything like us. Paul's core instruction is that we be like him.
And then I will read translations and commentaries in English.
Demonstrating at least two things

  • Jesus isn't God.
  • Paul is a false prophet as Jesus said his father (God) was greater than him
Or I could go with a translation that doesn't directly contradict the clear words of Jesus.
Having the same mind does not make us like Jesus in every respect.
φρονεισθω, the word translated mind, "to exercise the mind, that is, entertain or have a sentiment or opinion; by implication to be (mentally) disposed (more or less earnestly in a certain direction); intensively to interest oneself in (with concern or obedience): "​
Jesus was both God and man. Jesus identified Himself as both son of God and son of man. c.f. Genesis 1:21
I did not say, of my own, that Jesus was equal to God, scripture says that. You don't like it talk to the author and tell Him.
Philippians 2:7-8
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
At the time Jesus said the Father was greater than He, Jesus had emptied Himself. Don't like that talk to the author.
 

Stephen

Active member
Having the same mind does not make us like Jesus in every respect.
φρονεισθω, the word translated mind, "to exercise the mind, that is, entertain or have a sentiment or opinion; by implication to be (mentally) disposed (more or less earnestly in a certain direction); intensively to interest oneself in (with concern or obedience): "

I agree that it doesn't make us like Jesus in every respect. But that isn't related to anything in this discussion.

You want to make Jesus completely unlike us in every meaningful way with regards to the mind of Christ, when the passage directly commands us to have the mind of Christ.
 
I agree that it doesn't make us like Jesus in every respect. But that isn't related to anything in this discussion.
You want to make Jesus completely unlike us in every meaningful way with regards to the mind of Christ, when the passage directly commands us to have the mind of Christ.
What have I said that you could by any stretch think that I make Jesus completely unlike us?
Jesus was both God and man. Jesus identified Himself as both son of God and son of man. c.f. Genesis 1:21
I did not say, of my own, that Jesus was equal to God, scripture says that. You don't like it talk to the author and tell Him.
Philippians 2:7-8
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.​
At the time Jesus said the Father was greater than He, Jesus had emptied Himself. Don't like that talk to the author.
 

Stephen

Active member
What have I said that you could by any stretch think that I make Jesus completely unlike us?

You claim that
  • Jesus is "the one who was equal with God"
  • Jesus is God and man



I tried to not address the following and smooth out the conversation, but OK.

Jesus was both God and man. Jesus identified Himself as both son of God and son of man. c.f. Genesis 1:21

Genesis 1:21 has nothing to do with Jesus being both God and Man:

Genesis 1:21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say here.


I did not say, of my own, that Jesus was equal to God, scripture says that. You don't like it talk to the author and tell Him.
Philippians 2:7-8

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

There is nothing about Jesus being equal to God in these verses.

At the time Jesus said the Father was greater than He, Jesus had emptied Himself. Don't like that talk to the author.

You haven't defined what he emptied himself of.
 
[1] You claim that
  • Jesus is "the one who was equal with God"
  • Jesus is God and man
I tried to not address the following and smooth out the conversation, but OK.

[2] Genesis 1:21 has nothing to do with Jesus being both God and Man:

Genesis 1:21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say here.

[3]There is nothing about Jesus being equal to God in these verses.

[4] You haven't defined what he emptied himself of.
#1 Again I did not say that of my own. Scripture says it.
#2 Gen 1:21 says something about Jesus being God "every creature after its kind."
# 3 Do you even pay attention to what you read? Try actually reading what I was responding to and my response.
#4 Jesus existed in the morphe of God but He made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself,
 

Stephen

Active member
#1 Again I did not say that of my own. Scripture says it.


No, your cherry picked translation says it. And your cherry picked translation is in contradiction to other passages.

#2 Gen 1:21 says something about Jesus being God "every creature after its kind."

So you are claiming that "God" is a kind of creature, and Jesus is a creature after the kind "God" ? Wow.


# 3 Do you even pay attention to what you read? Try actually reading what I was responding to and my response.

Here's a hint. Verse 6 is the one you wanted. Not verses 7 and 8 like you posted.


#4 Jesus existed in the morphe of God but He made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself,

What did he empty himself of? Traditional trinitarian doctrine is that he added a human nature to himself, making him greater, not lesser.
 

Kampioen

New member
In other words...

What do you think Jesus "emptied himself" of?

I say it was his glorious body.
I would say Jesus experientially emptied Himself of equal status with God to that of a non-omniscient man, under the influence of human nature, taking the definition of a man.

I would say He did have a temporary angelic body but that is not the emptying referred to.
 
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