Pope backs civil unions

ramcam2

Member
And yet there was when Jesus called Simon "petros" and used petra for Himself. That aligns with the rest of scripture in how "rock" was used.
i agree that there are many ways 'rock' is used in the bible but it does not mean matt 16 refers to the same use of the word 'rock' in the other verses. i already stated this in my past post...https://forums.carm.org/threads/pope-backs-civil-unions.293/post-405737
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
i agree that there are many ways 'rock' is used in the bible but it does not mean matt 16 refers to the same use of the word 'rock' in the other verses. i already stated this in my past post...https://forums.carm.org/threads/pope-backs-civil-unions.293/post-405737
A concordance keyed to Strong's numbers will help you.
 

ramcam2

Member
A concordance keyed to Strong's numbers will help you.
here is strong's concordance on 'rock' in matt26 Word: petra
Pronounce: pet'-ra
Strongs Number: G4073
Orig: feminine of the same as 4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):--rock. G4074
Use: TDNT-6:95,834 Noun Feminine
Heb Strong: H2496 H3710 H5553 H6697
1) a rock, cliff or ledge
1a) a projecting rock, crag, rocky ground
1b) a rock, a large stone
1c) metaph. a man like a rock, by reason of his firmness and strength of soul
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
here is strong's concordance on 'rock' in matt26 Word: petra
Pronounce: pet'-ra
Strongs Number: G4073
Orig: feminine of the same as 4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):--rock. G4074
Use: TDNT-6:95,834 Noun Feminine
Heb Strong: H2496 H3710 H5553 H6697
1) a rock, cliff or ledge
1a) a projecting rock, crag, rocky ground
1b) a rock, a large stone
1c) metaph. a man like a rock, by reason of his firmness and strength of soul
Then look up the instances of "rock" in scripture using a concordance. What does it tell you? Should be pretty easy. It isn't Peter. and in the Matthew 16 section we have both the masculine and feminine used. Simon is called "petros" (Strongs 4074), and the second usage (Strongs 4073) is the feminine, not referring to Peter. Who does it then refer? Jesus, the Rock of our salvation.
 
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ramcam2

Member
Then look up the instances of "rock" in scripture using a concordance. What does it tell you? Should be pretty easy. It isn't Peter. and in the Matthew 16 section we have both the masculine and feminine used. Simon is called "petros" (Strongs 4074), and the second usage (Strongs 4073) is the feminine, not referring to Peter. Who does it then refer? Jesus, the Rock of our salvation.

they are the same. accdg to strong....petra g4073 is the feminine of the same as 4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):--rock. G4074 in other words, both refers to peter.
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
they are the same. accdg to strong....petra g4073 is the feminine of the same as 4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):--rock. G4074 in other words, both refers to peter.
Nope. Only in Roman Catholicism. You ignore every other usage of Rock referring to Jesus in the OT and NT. Jesus didn't build His church on a man. He built it upon Himself, being the chief cornerstone. A scripture study supports that and puts Matthew 16 into perspective. And Jesus didn't say, Petros, you are the Petra upon which I will build my church. He referred to Himself.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
they are the same. accdg to strong....petra g4073 is the feminine of the same as 4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively):--rock. G4074 in other words, both refers to peter.

And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. Hereby He signifies that many were now on the point of believing, and raises his spirit, and makes him a shepherd."
-- Chrysostom, Homily LIV,

"And wherefore said He not, But I did not suffer it, rather than, I have prayed? He speaks from this time lowly things, on His way to His passion, that He may show His humanity. For He that has built His church upon Peter's confession, and has so fortified it, that ten thousand dangers and deaths are not to prevail over it;"
-- Chrysostom, Homily LXXXIV

In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: On him as on a rock the Church was builtBut I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received the keys of the kingdom of heaven. For, Thou art Peter and not Thou art the rock was said to him. But the rock was Christ, in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. 
-- Augustine, Retractions

"To Peter the Father revealed that he should say, Thou art the Son of the living God. Therefore the building of the Church is upon this rock of confession; this faith is the foundation of the Church. 
-- Hilary

Faith, then, is the foundation of the Church, for it was not said of Peters flesh, but of his faith, that the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. But his confession of faith conquered hell. 
-- Ambrose of Milan


"When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immovable faith of the disciple.
-- Cyril of Alexandria, Commentary on Isaiah 4.2


"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer." 
-- Augustine, John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine, © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327

"You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Churchby whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name."
-- Bede, Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156.


"It will not be moved is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For  the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord."
-- Cassiodorus, Expositions in the Psalms, Psalm 45.5, M.P.L., Vol. 70, Col. 330)
 
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