correction... christianity is a continuation of judaism
“New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New.”... St Augustine
Pope backs civil unions
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“New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New.”... St Augustine
iow, you don't understand that either.
No it isn't. You are insulting Jesus when you say this. You are saying Jesus founded an institution that hides pedophile priests, allows nuns to be raped, an institution which lies about the evil in its mist to the laity to the authorities and has lied about its evil history for centuries. Jesus would never have founded such at institution. His word clearly says to expel those type of sinners.
Matt 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
The rock is not Peter and the gates of Hades are your institution. It allows evil to grow and flourish and does not expose it.
This is not an anti RCC rant, it is the truth about the RCC. There is a major difference. Have nuns been raped by priests over the centuries, Yes or No? Does some RCC priests harm children after their birth, Yes or No? Was this ignored by those who knew, Yes or No? When sin is not exposed but hidden, those who know and do nothing are part of the sin. The verses that support this have been posted in the past. Did the RCC lie to police, did they lie to the laity about what was happening to children, Yes or No?
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then why doesn't the rcc teach what He taught?
that vs doesn't say that.
what do you read in vs 13-17?
is Peter the rcc Messiah?
if so, then why doesn't the rcc teach what Peter taught?
Jesus Christ is. that's why He is priority in my life. that's why i don't believe words of men over His words. that's why I read and study His word. that's why i believe and follow His words, not those of men.
He is my Lord and Savior, the church minister is not, nor are any of my bible study teachers.
it is not what the early christians are saying.
Clement of Rome
Accept our counsel and you will have nothing to regret. . . . If anyone disobeys the things which have been said by him [Jesus] through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in no small danger. We, however, shall be innocent of this sin and will pray with entreaty and supplication that the Creator of all may keep unharmed the number of his elect (Letter to the Corinthians 58:2, 59:1 [A.D. 95]).
Ignatius of Antioch
You [the See of Rome] have envied no one, but others have you taught. I desire only that what you have enjoined in your instructions may remain in force (Epistle to the Romans 3:1 [A.D. 110]).
Irenaeus
… the greatest and most ancient church known to all, founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles. Peter and Paul, that church which has the tradition and the faith which comes down to us after having been announced to men by the apostles. With that church, because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree, that is, all the faithful in the whole world, and it is in her that the faithful everywhere have maintained the apostolic tradition (Against Heresies 3:3:2 [inter A.D. 189]).
Clement of Alexandria
[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the preeminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? “Behold, we have left all and have followed you” [Matt. 19:2 7, Mark 10:28] (Who is the Rich Man that is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).
Tertullian
[T]he Lord said to Peter, “On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven” [Matt. 16:18-19]. … Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).
Letter of Clement to James
Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter, the first-fruits of our Lord, the first of the apostles; to whom first the Father revealed the Son; whom the Christ, with good reason, blessed; the called, and elect (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D, 221]).
Origen
And Peter, on whom the Church of Christ is built, against which the gates of hell shall not prevail left only one epistle of acknowledged genuineness (Commentaries on John 5:3 [A.D. 226-232]).
Cyprian
With a false bishop appointed for themselves by heretics, they dare even to set sail and carry letters from schismatics and blasphemers to the Chair of Peter and to the principal church [at Rome], in which sacerdotal unity has its source” (Epistle to Cornelius [Bishop of Rome] 59:14 [A.D. 252]).
Constantine Augustus
And that the opposing parties who were contending persistently and incessantly with each other, should be summoned from Africa; that in their presence, and in the presence of the bishop of Rome, the matter which appeared to be causing the disturbance might be examined and decided with all care (To Chrestus [A.D. 314] as recorded by Eusebius).
Cyril of Jerusalem
In the power of the same Holy Spirit, Peter, both the chief of the apostles and the keeper of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, in the name of Christ healed Aeneas the paralytic at Lydda, which is now called Diospolis [Acts 9 ;3 2-3 4] (Catechetical Lectures 17;27 [A.D. 350]).
Optatus
In the city of Rome the Episcopal chair was given first to Peter, the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head — that is why he is also called Cephas — of all the apostles, the one chair in which unity is maintained by all. Neither do the apostles proceed individually on their own, and anyone who would [presume to] set up another chair in opposition to that single chair would, by that very fact, be a schismatic and a sinner (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [circa A.D. 367]).
Ephraim
Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its tall buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on earth a Church for Me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows, you are the chief of my disciples (Homilies 4:1 [inter A.D. 338-373]).
Ambrose of Milan
[Christ] made answer: “You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church . . .” Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]? (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).
Tyrannius Rufinus
and further how he speaks of the city of Rome, which now through the grace of God is reckoned by Christians as their capital (Apology 2:23 [A.D. 400]).
Augustine
Among these [apostles] Peter alone almost everywhere deserved to represent the whole Church. Because of that representation of the Church, which only he bore, he deserved to hear “I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven” (Sermons 295:2 [A.D. 411]).
the church does, who said otherwise?
what about it?
no
again, the church does
to belong to jesus is to belong to his church.
catholics do disobey His word.
not one of them found in the time of Jesus or apostles.
you quote men of this world, not Jesus or apostle.
Are these men the apostles? It is not your evil institution that is in scripture no matter what the ECFs said, on the matter. Paul disciplined the Corinth church, not Peter. We are all equal according to scriptures. Your ECFs are known to be wrong, they were misogynists for a start, whereas Jesus treated women as equal to men. Yep I do not put much into the sayings of the ECFs they are just fallible men. Scripture is clear trust no man, test the spirits, test the fruit etc. Your institution fails those tests, so it is not the church in the NT. You insult Jesus when you accuse Him of founding such a vile institution that harms the sheep.
They have to turn to mere men, as they know the scriptures do not support their false claims. This is because they ignore most of scripture and as you point out they disobey His word.
the rcc, catholics...
i asked a very simple question...
what do those verses say / mean?
Ignatius was born around 50ad and died in rome between 98 &117ad. It was Peter who appointed Ignatius to the church in antioch. Legend says he was the child jesus took up in his arms (mk9: 35).
Ramcam;
What are they teaching you ????????
St Ignatius is a myth, just a made up Story put forth 2-300 years after Christ
and the Apostles
to support Rome against the Eastern Bishops
here read and learn something
We find these seven mentioned not only by Eusebius (Church History III.36) but also by St. Jerome (De viris illust., c. xvi). Of later collections of Ignatian letters which have been preserved, the oldest is known as the "long recension". This collection, the author of which is unknown, dates from the latter part of the fourth century. It contains the seven genuine and six spurious letters, but even the genuine epistles were greatly interpolated to lend weight to the personal views of its author. For this reason they are incapable of bearing witness to the original form. The spurious letters in this recension are those that purport to be from Ignatius
and that is from your own church admitting this
ie
[indent[the personal views of its author. For this reason they are incapable of bearing witness to the original form. [/indent]
That not my Opinion
that's from your Own
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: St. Ignatius of Antioch
Biography of the bishop and writer. Ignatius was martyred at Rome sometime between 98 and 117
www.newadvent.org
Rome = the Home of Forgery and Privilies
2Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people,
even as there shall be false teachers among you,
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
yes, they are fallible and yet some of them were in the church councils that determine the canon of the bible in 3-4ad.
so, you do not trust your church leaders since they are not the apostles. again, you seem to be the authority and not your bible.
are you an eastern orthodox christian?Ramcam;
What are they teaching you ????????
St Ignatius is a myth, just a made up Story put forth 2-300 years after Christ
and the Apostles
to support Rome against the Eastern Bishops
here read and learn something
We find these seven mentioned not only by Eusebius (Church History III.36) but also by St. Jerome (De viris illust., c. xvi). Of later collections of Ignatian letters which have been preserved, the oldest is known as the "long recension". This collection, the author of which is unknown, dates from the latter part of the fourth century. It contains the seven genuine and six spurious letters, but even the genuine epistles were greatly interpolated to lend weight to the personal views of its author. For this reason they are incapable of bearing witness to the original form. The spurious letters in this recension are those that purport to be from Ignatius
and that is from your own church admitting this
ie
[indent[the personal views of its author. For this reason they are incapable of bearing witness to the original form. [/indent]
That not my Opinion
that's from your Own
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: St. Ignatius of Antioch
Biography of the bishop and writer. Ignatius was martyred at Rome sometime between 98 and 117
Rome = the Home of Forgery and Privilies
2Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people,
even as there shall be false teachers among you,
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
i am not saying i agree with your statements but what about the other ecfs?
majority of what they wrote is in line with catholic doctrine.
none of them are Jesus or an apostle.
what about them? they come after scripture was penned. not inspired by the HS, not in line scripture. if you pick 'n choose which ones you will use.
that is from your own church admitting this
ie
[indent[the personal views of its author. For this reason they are incapable of bearing witness to the original form. [/indent]
That not my Opinion
that's from your Own
Rome = the Home of Forgery and Privilies
2Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people,
even as there shall be false teachers among you,
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
Ramcam;
it matters not what any of the ECF's say
way too many of their writings;
that have been preserved by Rome have been altered
to say what Rome wanted them to write
Rome was a liar and a Sodmite from the get go;
if this Celebrated Bishop of Antioch was so well known and revered
then there would be definite proof of the Dates he was martyred
definite proof (of a person) certain or sure about something.
ie
[indent[the personal views of its author. For this reason they are incapable of bearing witness to the original form. [/indent]
That not my Opinion
that's from your Own
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: St. Ignatius of Antioch
Biography of the bishop and writer. Ignatius was martyred at Rome sometime between 98 and 117Rome = the Home of Forgery and Privilies
2Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people,
even as there shall be false teachers among you,
who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,
Ramcam;
it matters not what any of the ECF's say
way too many of their writings;
that have been preserved by Rome have been altered
to say what Rome wanted them to write
Rome was a liar and a Sodmite from the get go;
Ignatius was martyred at Rome sometime between 98 and 117
if this Celebrated Bishop of Antioch was so well known and revered
then there would be definite proof of the Dates he was martyred
definite proof (of a person) certain or sure about something.
your church councils mean nothing to Christians.
how would you know? what you know is made up by the rcc. it is not scripture.
Ram;
the RCC determined nothing of the sort;
all Rome did was Steal what the "Church of Ephesus" had already determined
have you never read
Proverbs 91
Wisdom hath builded her house,
she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
2 She hath killed her beasts;
she hath mingled her wine;
she hath also furnished her table.
3 She hath sent forth her maidens:
she crieth upon the highest places of the city,
4 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither:
as for him that wanteth understanding,
she saith to him,
5 Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine
which I have mingled.
6 Forsake the foolish, and live;
and go in the way of understanding.
---
17
Stolen waters are sweet,
and bread eaten in secret is pleasant.
18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there;
and that her guests are in the depths of hell.
Rome;
A
Liar and a Thief from the very 1stand yet all are using the 27 books new testament the catholic church determined.
our church leaders can trace their lineage back to the apostles.
how about yours?
Christians had them long before the rcc existed. Christians penned them.
no they can't. what it tells you is a lie. they don't know or teach what the apostles taught.
mine are born again and teach the truth of scripture - what Jesus and apostles taught.
what they teach is actually found in scripture. none have ever tried to discourage me from reading it, as the rcc did / does.
they have the guidance of the HS. the rcc does not.