Pope backs civil unions

ramcam2 said:
the apostles were the authority as appointed by jesus christ over his church built on peter (bind and loose). they were the ones (and their valid successors) commissioned to preach the gospel to the world. (how can they preach unless sent?)

the Israelites are called a “kingdom of priests,” (1peter2: 1-25) but one discovers a distinct order of men who are considered priests apart from the people: “And also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, lest the Lord break out upon them” (Ex. 19:22). we know clearly what a priest does. in the new testament, jesus clearly the conferred on the apostles the power to forgive sins (John 20:20-23) and to offer sacrifice, particularly the sacrifice that Jesus offered at the Last Supper (luke22). we can conclude that Christ willed for his Church to have a ministerial-hierarchical priesthood that is distinct from the common-universal priesthood of the believers.
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Sorry I don't believe your interpretations that come from the bad tree and the false teachers. They fail the biblical tests.
 
ramcam2 said:
the apostles were the authority as appointed by jesus christ over his church built on peter (bind and loose). they were the ones (and their valid successors) commissioned to preach the gospel to the world. (how can they preach unless sent?)
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His church wasn't built on Peter. that belief is part of the false rcc teachings.

what is the gospel? does the rcc teach it? if so, when does it do that?

the Israelites are called a “kingdom of priests,” (1peter2: 1-25) but one discovers a distinct order of men who are considered priests apart from the people: “And also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, lest the Lord break out upon them” (Ex. 19:22). we know clearly what a priest does.
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catholics aren't Israelites. it doesn't seem like you know what those verses say - or why.

in the new testament, jesus clearly the conferred on the apostles the power to forgive sins (John 20:20-23)
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no, He clearly did not. that you believe what the rcc teaches does not make it scriptural.

and to offer sacrifice, particularly the sacrifice that Jesus offered at the Last Supper (luke22). we can conclude that Christ willed for his Church to have a ministerial-hierarchical priesthood that is distinct from the common-universal priesthood of the believers.
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there are no more sacrifices such as you mean (and the rcc teaches) in the NT.

what sacrifice did Jesus offer at the LS? include the biblical support of it.

catholics can conclude nothing scriptural with their of lack of knowledge of Him and His word.
 
ramcam2 said:
the apostles were the authority as appointed by jesus christ over his church built on peter (bind and loose). they were the ones (and their valid successors) commissioned to preach the gospel to the world. (how can they preach unless sent?)
Click to expand...
The catechism states that Christ built his Church on Peter's confession:

CCC 424: Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.
ramcam2 said:
the Israelites are called a “kingdom of priests,” (1peter2: 1-25) but one discovers a distinct order of men who are considered priests apart from the people: “And also let the priests who come near to the Lord consecrate themselves, lest the Lord break out upon them” (Ex. 19:22). we know clearly what a priest does. in the new testament, jesus clearly the conferred on the apostles the power to forgive sins (John 20:20-23) and to offer sacrifice, particularly the sacrifice that Jesus offered at the Last Supper (luke22). we can conclude that Christ willed for his Church to have a ministerial-hierarchical priesthood that is distinct from the common-universal priesthood of the believers.
Click to expand...
Peter's letter is to Christians, not Jews (Israelites).

1 John 2:2) My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Per John, there is no further need of sacrifice. Per Peter, we are to offer spiritual sacrifices. No need for a sacerdotal priesthood.
 
Kerwyn said:
The catechism states that Christ built his Church on Peter's confession:

CCC 424: Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.
Click to expand...
you keep forgetting these, every time you post the above ^^^ ...

CCC 1444 In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ's solemn words to Simon Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head."

CCC 553 Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." The "power of the keys" designates authority to govern the house of God, which is the Church. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: "Feed my sheep." The power to "bind and loose" connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.

CCC 880 When Christ instituted the Twelve, "he constituted [them] in the form of a college or permanent assembly, at the head of which he placed Peter, chosen from among them." Just as "by the Lord's institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constitute a single apostolic college, so in like fashion the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are related with and united to one another."

881 The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the "rock" of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock.400 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head."401 This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church's very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.

882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403

883 "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."404

884 "The college of bishops exercises power over the universal Church in a solemn manner in an ecumenical council."405 But "there never is an ecumenical council which is not confirmed or at least recognized as such by Peter's successor."406

885 "This college, in so far as it is composed of many members, is the expression of the variety and universality of the People of God; and of the unity of the flock of Christ, in so far as it is assembled under one head."407
 
Kerwyn said:
The catechism states that Christ built his Church on Peter's confession:

CCC 424: Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.
Click to expand...
Arch Stanton said:
you keep forgetting these, every time you post the above ^^^ ...

CCC 1444 In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ's solemn words to Simon Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head."

CCC 553 Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." The "power of the keys" designates authority to govern the house of God, which is the Church. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: "Feed my sheep." The power to "bind and loose" connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.

CCC 880 When Christ instituted the Twelve, "he constituted [them] in the form of a college or permanent assembly, at the head of which he placed Peter, chosen from among them." Just as "by the Lord's institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constitute a single apostolic college, so in like fashion the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are related with and united to one another."

881 The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the "rock" of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock.400 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head."401 This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church's very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.

882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403

883 "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."404

884 "The college of bishops exercises power over the universal Church in a solemn manner in an ecumenical council."405 But "there never is an ecumenical council which is not confirmed or at least recognized as such by Peter's successor."406

885 "This college, in so far as it is composed of many members, is the expression of the variety and universality of the People of God; and of the unity of the flock of Christ, in so far as it is assembled under one head."407
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so lots of words by a false teacher supporting that it conflicts with other words it has written and claimed to be truth.

really, there is no surprise in that.
 
Kerwyn said:
The catechism states that Christ built his Church on Peter's confession:

CCC 424: Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.
Click to expand...
who made the confession? it is peter. what will be wrong in ccc24 is if it does not say it is peter. it is peter confessing, it you say it is only his confession and not peter, you got it all wrong. it goes against how it was interpreted and understood by the early church.

Kerwyn said:
Peter's letter is to Christians, not Jews (Israelites).

1 John 2:2) My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Per John, there is no further need of sacrifice. Per Peter, we are to offer spiritual sacrifices. No need for a sacerdotal priesthood.
Click to expand...
Jesus empowers his disciples to do what He commands them. john 20: 22 With that, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit; 23 when you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven, when you hold them bound, they are held bound. this is a priestly power given by God to his apostles proving a sacerdotal priesthood.
 
Kerwyn said:
The catechism states that Christ built his Church on Peter's confession:

CCC 424: Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe in Jesus and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church.
Click to expand...
who made the confession? it is peter. what will be wrong if it does not say it is peter. it is peter confessing, it you say it is only his confession and not peter, you got it all wrong. it goes against how it was interpreted and understood by the early church.

Kerwyn said:
Peter's letter is to Christians, not Jews (Israelites).

1 John 2:2) My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Per John, there is no further need of sacrifice. Per Peter, we are to offer spiritual sacrifices. No need for a sacerdotal priesthood.
Click to expand...
Jesus empowers his disciples to do what He commands them. john 20: 22 With that, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit; 23 when you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven, when you hold them bound, they are held bound. this is a priestly power given by God to his apostles proving a sacerdotal priesthood.
 
ramcam2 said:
who made the confession? it is peter. what will be wrong in ccc24 is if it does not say it is peter. it is peter confessing, it you say it is only his confession and not peter, you got it all wrong. it goes against how it was interpreted and understood by the early church.


Jesus empowers his disciples to do what He commands them. john 20: 22 With that, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit; 23 when you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven, when you hold them bound, they are held bound. this is a priestly power given by God to his apostles proving a sacerdotal priesthood.
Click to expand...
Jesus empowers his disciples to do what He commands them. john 20: 22 With that, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit; 23 when you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven, when you hold them bound, they are held bound.
Click to expand...
yes, His disciples. catholics aren't His disciples.

there's only One Who can forgive sin and only one way to do that.
 
ramcam2 said:
who made the confession? it is peter. what will be wrong if it does not say it is peter. it is peter confessing, it you say it is only his confession and not peter, you got it all wrong. it goes against how it was interpreted and understood by the early church.
Click to expand...
That quote is from straight from the CCC. Take it up with Rome I guess.

ramcam2 said:
Jesus empowers his disciples to do what He commands them. john 20: 22 With that, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit; 23 when you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven, when you hold them bound, they are held bound. this is a priestly power given by God to his apostles proving a sacerdotal priesthood.
Click to expand...
Yes, but the apostles showed by faith that they were of the kingdom of God. The behavior of the RCC clergy shows they are not.
 
Kerwyn said:
That quote is from straight from the CCC. Take it up with Rome I guess.


Yes, but the apostles showed by faith that they were of the kingdom of God. The behavior of the RCC clergy shows they are not.
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You once again hit the nail on the head.
 
Kerwyn said:
That quote is from straight from the CCC. Take it up with Rome I guess.
Click to expand...

where did the ccc say peter is not the one who made the confession? if i will ask you, who made the confession... is it peter or someone else?
Kerwyn said:
Yes, but the apostles showed by faith that they were of the kingdom of God. The behavior of the RCC clergy shows they are not.
Click to expand...
what made peter an apostle... his denial of christ 3x?
what made thomas an apostle... his doubting jesus resurrected?
what about judas? his betrayal of jesus?
etc...
all of the apostles have their own weaknesses just like the clergy (catholics and non-catholics) who are all mosrtal men but it does not mean they cannot belong to the body of jesus christ. God's kingdom here on earth is made up of sinners and saints alike.
 
Arch Stanton said:
you keep forgetting these, every time you post the above ^^^ ...

CCC 1444 In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. This ecclesial dimension of their task is expressed most notably in Christ's solemn words to Simon Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of the apostles united to its head."

CCC 553 Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." The "power of the keys" designates authority to govern the house of God, which is the Church. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: "Feed my sheep." The power to "bind and loose" connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgments, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles and in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.

CCC 880 When Christ instituted the Twelve, "he constituted [them] in the form of a college or permanent assembly, at the head of which he placed Peter, chosen from among them." Just as "by the Lord's institution, St. Peter and the rest of the apostles constitute a single apostolic college, so in like fashion the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, and the bishops, the successors of the apostles, are related with and united to one another."

881 The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the "rock" of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock.400 "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head."401 This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church's very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.

882 The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403

883 "The college or body of bishops has no authority unless united with the Roman Pontiff, Peter's successor, as its head." As such, this college has "supreme and full authority over the universal Church; but this power cannot be exercised without the agreement of the Roman Pontiff."404

884 "The college of bishops exercises power over the universal Church in a solemn manner in an ecumenical council."405 But "there never is an ecumenical council which is not confirmed or at least recognized as such by Peter's successor."406

885 "This college, in so far as it is composed of many members, is the expression of the variety and universality of the People of God; and of the unity of the flock of Christ, in so far as it is assembled under one head."407
Click to expand...
those are just words of men - not of God. is the rcc your god?
 
ramcam2 said:
who made the confession? it is peter. what will be wrong in ccc24 is if it does not say it is peter. it is peter confessing, it you say it is only his confession and not peter, you got it all wrong. it goes against how it was interpreted and understood by the early church.


Jesus empowers his disciples to do what He commands them. john 20: 22 With that, he breathed on them, and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit; 23 when you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven, when you hold them bound, they are held bound. this is a priestly power given by God to his apostles proving a sacerdotal priesthood.
Click to expand...
Roman Catholics supposedly make a confession before every Mass is said by mindlessly reciting the Confiteor.
Did Peter confess, as Roman Catholics do:
to Almighty God;
to Blessed Mary ever Virgin;
to Blessed Michael the Archangel;
to Blessed John the Baptist;
to Paul and Christ's Holy Apostles;
to all the saints;
and also to the Heavenly Father;
stating, "I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word, and deed, through my own fault, therefore he beseeched the Blessed Mary ever Virgin, Blessed Michael the Archangel, Blessed John the Baptist, Paul and Christ's Holy Apostles, all the saints, and the Almighty Father, to pray to the Lord, our God for him?
 
RayneBeau said:
Roman Catholics supposedly make a confession before every Mass is said by mindlessly reciting the Confiteor.
Did Peter confess, as Roman Catholics do:
to Almighty God;
to Blessed Mary ever Virgin;
to Blessed Michael the Archangel;
to Blessed John the Baptist;
to Paul and Christ's Holy Apostles;
to all the saints;
and also to the Heavenly Father;
stating, "I have sinned exceedingly in thought, word, and deed, through my own fault, therefore he beseeched the Blessed Mary ever Virgin, Blessed Michael the Archangel, Blessed John the Baptist, Paul and Christ's Holy Apostles, all the saints, and the Almighty Father, to pray to the Lord, our God for him?
Click to expand...
They should add and we will just go out and repeat it all over and over again. They are not taught about biblical repentance.
 
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