RayneBeau
Well-known member
Except for Christ and the Father, why are Roman Catholics and a priest, (weekly or daily) "confessing" to all those dead Roman Catholics at each and every mass. That's not what "confess your sins one to another" means.
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- Thread starter organgrinder
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Let me see they do not understand salvation, worship, repentance which is really important, scripture and many other important things. But they say they do not believe they can earn salvation but then they have to earn salvation by doing good deeds, the sacraments, penance (what a joke), indulgences, rosary etc.
the confiteor in the sacrifice of the mass is not the same confession peter in matt16.
so, explain john20: 22-23. thanks.
1Thess521
Well-known member
It is this context which frames Jesus' remark about forgiveness: this declaration comes because these men are being reminded and guided by the Spirit of God. In no sense, at all, does Christ mean that forgiveness of sin is being determined by the disciples, or that they are choosing whether to absolve others of sin. The original Greek language uses more easily defined tenses, so it comes across more clearly, emphasizing that such sins "have already been forgiven" or "have already been retained." Guided by the truth of the Holy Spirit and in keeping with His truth, these men will be able to accurately declare whether others are abiding by those truths.
This follows in the same style as Jesus' previous instructions (Matthew 16:19; 18:18). It also parallels the Old Testament symbolism of God telling a prophet they would "do" certain things, while at the same time making it clear that the prophet's role was only to announce such things as God was doing (Jeremiah 9:1–10).
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What does John 20:23 mean? | BibleRef.com
If you forgive the sins of any, their sinshave been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.' - What is the meaning of John 20:23?
www.bibleref.com
Not just proclaiming but Paul said he pardons in the person of Christ (2 Corinthians 2:10)It is this context which frames Jesus' remark about forgiveness: this declaration comes because these men are being reminded and guided by the Spirit of God. In no sense, at all, does Christ mean that forgiveness of sin is being determined by the disciples, or that they are choosing whether to absolve others of sin. The original Greek language uses more easily defined tenses, so it comes across more clearly, emphasizing that such sins "have already been forgiven" or "have already been retained." Guided by the truth of the Holy Spirit and in keeping with His truth, these men will be able to accurately declare whether others are abiding by those truths.
This follows in the same style as Jesus' previous instructions (Matthew 16:19; 18:18). It also parallels the Old Testament symbolism of God telling a prophet they would "do" certain things, while at the same time making it clear that the prophet's role was only to announce such things as God was doing (Jeremiah 9:1–10).
What does John 20:23 mean? | BibleRef.com
If you forgive the sins of any, their sinshave been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.' - What is the meaning of John 20:23?www.bibleref.com
In Matthew 16:19 and 18:18, Christ tells Peter and the apostles: “Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” Christ communicated not only the authority “to pronounce doctrinal judgments and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church” but also “the authority to absolve sins” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 553).
God, who alone has the power to open and shut heaven to men, did give this authority to men. Jesus Christ clearly communicated this authority to the apostles and their successors.
The words bind and loose mean: whomever you exclude from your communion will be excluded from communion with God; whomever you receive anew into your communion God will welcome back into his. Reconciliation with the Church is inseparable from reconciliation with God. (CCC 1445). The forgiveness of sins is all about reconciling men and women with their heavenly Father.
no He did not. that is His alone. sins you confess to a priest are not forgiven by God. take those directly to Him if you have access to Him thru Christ. until you can do that they are not forgiven.
wrong. the rcc is not God.
note that 2x you've quoted from words made up by rcc men, not words given to us by God.
Paul would burn your catechism because of its heresies.
1Thess521
Well-known member
ONLY God can forgive sins:
Any interpretation of John 20: 22-23 that others forgiving sins is in error.
If you believe that the Apostles or your Church can forgive sins, you are in error.
If your Church teaches that; they are in error.
It is really this simple: ONLY God can forgive sins.
1Thess521
Well-known member
That is a very Jewish understanding of forgiveness, we can only forgive those who wrong us. That comes through very strongly in the book The Sunflower by Simeon Wiesenthal. Great read, shows our we all interpret the word forgiveness in different ways. It is one of those books I would recommend to all to read.
Let me make it clear, it is God who forgives our sins. But, a priest being used as God’s instrument of forgiveness did not somehow take away from the fact that it was God who did the forgiving. This is seen in the OT in Leviticus 19:20-22. God is the first cause of the forgiveness and the priest is the instrumental/secondary cause. Jesus Christ made it clear that He delegated authority to his New Testament ministers to act as mediators of reconciliation (John 20:21-23).
The text of John 20. “If you forgive the sins of any… if you retain the sins of any.”, cannot say it any clearer: this is more than a mere proclamation of the forgiveness of sins, this “commission” of the Lord communicates the power to actually forgive the sins themselves.
So where the sin of abuse of your priests forgiven when they went to confession. You do not know the meaning of biblical repentance.
The Code of Canon Law specifies: “To receive the salvific remedy of the sacrament of penance, a member of the Christian faithful must be disposed in such a way that, rejecting sins committed and having a purpose of amendment, the person is turned back to God” (CIC 987).
Celibacy is not the rule for all Catholic priests. In fact, for Eastern Rite Catholics, married priests are the norm, just as they are for Orthodox and Oriental Christians.Well, I guess priests can now finally get married.
leonard03782
Well-known member
In other words, your priests can "rejecting sins committed and having a purpose of amendment' after raping and abusing a child and then go out and do the same thing 200 times over? Sure sounds like they turned away from their sins to me.....
So no understanding of biblical repentance at all. Also words mean nothing with out supporting action. You paedophile priests are evidence this is all talk and no action. They can the confess and repeat action.
No in the Western institution which a lot of us are familiar with. The not marrying goes against the requirements for leaders set out in scripture.