Preach the Gospel to Babies. Children, & to the Mentally Challenged

Hark

Well-known member
The biggest excuse which is no excuse, that babies, children, and the mentally challenged do not understand, but scripture says otherwise.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So the Father draws ALL of ANY AGE unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved. Our believing is not done by a persuasion of a man's speech but the Spirit's power.

1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So do not hinder the babies, nor the little children, nor the mentally challenged from hearing the gospel to believe in Him to be saved.

Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

We can sing Christian songs to little babies, children, and mentally challenged as well as share the Good News with them.

Indeed, pregnant women can speak to their unborn child in the womb, since it is the Father that draws them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved.

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. 24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

Share the Good News with your captive audience today, trusting the Father to draw them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved.

Let them come to the door of Jesus Christ in joy today, knowing the Father is the One that draws them to the Son to reveal His Son to them so they can believe in Jesus Christ to be saved..
 
The biggest excuse which is no excuse, that babies, children, and the mentally challenged do not understand, but scripture says otherwise.
I say leave the kids alone. They're too young to discern truth from baloney. Religious indoctrination of children often constitutes abuse especially when fear and guilt are involved. I should know because I suffered religious abuse as a child and even as a young adult. I don't want anybody else to be victimized.

As for the "mentally challenged," it looks like you've already converted them.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
The biggest excuse which is no excuse, that babies, children, and the mentally challenged do not understand, but scripture says otherwise.
No it does not.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
”Babes” here does NOT mean babies, as in, one-year old babies. Contrary to your opinion, Jesus is not telling us that one-year old babies, or mentally retarded, or even brain-dead people lying on a hospital bed, understand who or what God is.

Your OP is a perfect example what happens when a reader misses the actual point of a passage, finds a word that stands out to them, takes it literally, and heads off on a tangent over the cliff.

So the Father draws ALL of ANY AGE unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved.
Nope.

God does not give understanding of himself to a new-born baby because a newborn baby lacks cognitive capacity to even know what God is, much less to choose between good or bad.
Our believing is not done by a persuasion of a man's speech but the Spirit's power.
You are twisting an idea to erroneously imply that the Spirit‘s power can help a newborn baby understand salvation, God, good versus bad, etc. You have missed the point entirely.

Our believing results from the preaching of others and interaction of the Spirit upon the soul which is capable of understanding the message preached. Therefore, newborn babies, mentally retarded, and brain-dead hospital patients would naturally be excluded.

1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Please note that Paul is writing to adults who have capacity for understanding what he is writing. Nowhere is he writing to newborn babies or mentally retarded people.
So do not hinder the babies, nor the little children, nor the mentally challenged from hearing the gospel to believe in Him to be saved.
Nope. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to preach the Gospel to newborn babies. You have erroneously taken a single word from a passage you do not understand and went off a cliff.
Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Has nothing to do with the physical age but more to do with faith as a child. Children are blank slates and open to all ideas, whereas, adults may be rooted in error already precluding them from being receptive to truth.

Jesus is not implying a newborn baby understands the Gospel better than an adult. You have missed the point and went off a cliff.
We can sing Christian songs to little babies, children, and mentally challenged as well as share the Good News with them.
Sing to newborns all you want and they may enjoy the melody but they will not understand the words.
Indeed, pregnant women can speak to their unborn child in the womb, since it is the Father that draws them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved.
Nope, the unborn baby does not understand God, good versus evil, repentance, etc. The mothers voice may serve to imprint upon the unborn’s psyche a familial comfort or such benefit, but it has nothing to do with the unborn understanding anything about God. The brain is not developed enough for that.
Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. 24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Again, twisting scripture to promote your erroneous interpretation of scripture.
Believing does not make anything possible, to include your theory, that newborn babies understand God, salvation, Jesus, etc.
Share the Good News with your captive audience today, trusting the Father to draw them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved.
Nope. Not scriptural, (not even reality) only in your false opinion can a newborn baby, mentally retarded, brain-dead hospital patients understand God, salvation, Jesus, good versus bad, etc.
Let them come to the door of Jesus Christ in joy today, knowing the Father is the One that draws them to the Son to reveal His Son to them so they can believe in Jesus Christ to be saved..
Your OP is a perfect example of erroneously applying scripture to promote a false idea. Then you dress the false idea with Christian imagery to make it sound authentic. It would be like putting a dress on a pig on its way to the prom. It is doomed from the beginning.

This is where you tell me that if only I knew Jesus as you do then I would not be opposed to your “wisdom” or “understanding“.

If only I had a nickel every time someone told me that.
 
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Hark

Well-known member
I say leave the kids alone. They're too young to discern truth from baloney. Religious indoctrination of children often constitutes abuse especially when fear and guilt are involved. I should know because I suffered religious abuse as a child and even as a young adult. I don't want anybody else to be victimized.

As for the "mentally challenged," it looks like you've already converted them.
Actually, that is the motivation behind them not telling little children because they are too young to understand and be serious "religiously" in following Jesus.

Reread the scriptures again in the OP or see why Christianity was never supposed to be a religion of what man can do, but what God has done and can do for us after having reconciled us through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

So you were ripped off by religious minded Christians that thinks they can finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit, looking to you to be serious when you & they should be trusting Jesus Christ to help them to follow Him after having been saved by Him.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

So forget about all those religious Christians and religious churches. Listen to His words because children are free to come to Him to rest in Him today. It is the religious people that have a hard time finding their rest in Jesus Christ by taking Him at His word which is all little children can do.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
 

Hark

Well-known member
No it does not.

”Babes” here does NOT mean babies, as in, one-year old babies. Contrary to your opinion, Jesus is not telling us that one-year old babies, or mentally retarded, or even brain-dead people lying on a hospital bed, understand who or what God is.

Your OP is a perfect example what happens when a reader misses the actual point of a passage, finds a word that stands out to them, takes it literally, and heads off on a tangent over the cliff.


Nope.

God does not give understanding of himself to a new-born baby because a newborn baby lacks cognitive capacity to even know what God is, much less to choose between good or bad.

You are twisting an idea to erroneously imply that the Spirit‘s power can help a newborn baby understand salvation, God, good versus bad, etc. You have missed the point entirely.

Our believing results from the preaching of others and interaction of the Spirit upon the soul which is capable of understanding the message preached. Therefore, newborn babies, mentally retarded, and brain-dead hospital patients would naturally be excluded.


Please note that Paul is writing to adults who have capacity for understanding what he is writing. Nowhere is he writing to newborn babies or mentally retarded people.

Nope. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to preach the Gospel to newborn babies. You have erroneously taken a single word from a passage you do not understand and went off a cliff.

Has nothing to do with the physical age but more to do with faith as a child. Children are blank slates and open to all ideas, whereas, adults may be rooted in error already precluding them from being receptive to truth.

Jesus is not implying a newborn baby understands the Gospel better than an adult. You have missed the point and went off a cliff.

Sing to newborns all you want and they may enjoy the melody but they will not understand the words.

Nope, the unborn baby does not understand God, good versus evil, repentance, etc. The mothers voice may serve to imprint upon the unborn’s psyche a familial comfort or such benefit, but it has nothing to do with the unborn understanding anything about God. The brain is not developed enough for that.

Again, twisting scripture to promote your erroneous interpretation of scripture.
Believing does not make anything possible, to include your theory, that newborn babies understand God, salvation, Jesus, etc.

Nope. Not scriptural, (not even reality) only in your false opinion can a newborn baby, mentally retarded, brain-dead hospital patients understand God, salvation, Jesus, good versus bad, etc.

Your OP is a perfect example of erroneously applying scripture to promote a false idea. Then you dress the false idea with Christian imagery to make it sound authentic. It would be like putting a dress on a pig on its way to the prom. It is doomed from the beginning.

This is where you tell me that if only I knew Jesus as you do then I would not be opposed to your “wisdom” or “understanding“.

If only I had a nickel every time someone told me that.
I can recall a memory of being in a hospital when I was a baby and I understood the words being spoken there as one of the nurses had me at her work station, watching over me, but because I was crying, she had enough and screamed in my ear to shut up. I heard one of the other nurses to tell her to stop that, but it worked because I stopped crying out of fear.

I had another memory of me being held by my aunt as she was telling me I was her other Mommy. Another aunt was there with her when she had said that and pointed out that I had a confused look on my face and I began to cry out for my actual mother.

I have heard others testify of remembering being in their mother's womb.

So this idea that babies do not understand because they are not able to understand is assumed out of ignorance.

Muslims from all over the world have been testifying how Jesus appeared to them so they can believe in Him to be saved since their religion builds a wall that prevents them from seeking the Truth as well as anyone reaching out to them to share this truth about Jesus Christ.

So as God the Father can draw any and all that would seek Him to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved, that goes for those in the womb as He has appeared to many believers outside the womb in dreams and visions, so He can do the same for those in the wombs.

So I go to scripture which many Christians are not willing to accept or believe that the Father is capable in drawing them unto the Son to reveal the Son to them to believe even though scripture plainly says so all the while ignoring the testimonies of others in how that is possible as in what is impossible for man, is possible with God, because all those who seek Him will hear the Good News to be saved..
 

docphin5

Well-known member
I can recall a memory of being in a hospital when I was a baby and I understood the words being spoken there as one of the nurses had me at her work station, watching over me, but because I was crying, she had enough and screamed in my ear to shut up. I heard one of the other nurses to tell her to stop that, but it worked because I stopped crying out of fear.

I had another memory of me being held by my aunt as she was telling me I was her other Mommy. Another aunt was there with her when she had said that and pointed out that I had a confused look on my face and I began to cry out for my actual mother.

I have heard others testify of remembering being in their mother's womb.

Your evidence is called anecdotal evidence. It is personal and subjective, but when put to the test of reason and evidence, for example, the scientific method, it cannot be repeated objectively.

People provide anecdotal evidence for aliens, claiming they saw them. Unfortunately, their evidence cannot be repeated or tested or examined because the only so-called evidence comes from their subjective experience.

Thus, your personal experience or anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence for anything, unless you can produce a peer reviewed study which suggests newborn babies have cognitive capacity equal to adults.

So this idea that babies do not understand because they are not able to understand is assumed out of ignorance.
I am sure most doctors would disagree with you. The medical data suggests newborn babies lack fully developed cognitive ability.

Your just doing what religious people do every day on this forum, that is, promote an opinion from a personal interpretation of scripture supported by anecdotal evidence or personal experience and ignoring actual evidence from reality (does the debate over evolution come to mind, anybody?).

Muslims from all over the world have been testifying how Jesus appeared to them so they can believe in Him to be saved since their religion builds a wall that prevents them from seeking the Truth as well as anyone reaching out to them to share this truth about Jesus Christ.

So as God the Father can draw any and all that would seek Him to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved, that goes for those in the womb as He has appeared to many believersence outside the womb in dreams and visions, so He can do the same for those in the wombs.

So I go to scripture which many Christians are not willing to accept or believe that the Father is capable in drawing them unto the Son to reveal the Son to them to believe even though scripture plainly says so all the while ignoring the testimonies of others in how that is possible as in what is impossible for man, is possible with God, because all those who seek Him will hear the Good News to be saved..
Yeah, yeah, yeah, …you are right and I am wrong because you read your Bible and I don’t, you believeeee… and I don’t. Haven’t heard that before.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Your evidence is called anecdotal evidence. It is personal and subjective, but when put to the test of reason and evidence, for example, the scientific method, it cannot be repeated objectively.
Not everyone can recall the same kind of moments in life, but some do. Some forget what others remember.

If science really want to research it; they can compare people that they know had been traumatized when they were little where some will recall the event in detail while others forget completely. There are enough true stories that they can do that research from that alone.

So in other words, opinions of the scientists will weigh how they receive such evidence and hardly can be done objectively even for your point of view to come to a factual conclusion.
People provide anecdotal evidence for aliens, claiming they saw them. Unfortunately, their evidence cannot be repeated or tested or examined because the only so-called evidence comes from their subjective experience.
One such testimony has the person calling on Jesus when the "aliens" came through the walls into his bedroom. So the Bible would signify that these aliens are not life from other planets but spiritual forces at work.
Thus, your personal experience or anecdotal evidence is not actual evidence for anything, unless you can produce a peer reviewed study which suggests newborn babies have cognitive capacity equal to adults.
Peer reviews is laughable. Anyone speaking against the evolution theory, even an atheist, can be judged as a creationist.

The core of the evolution theory is macro-evolution. Micro evolution is just a term coined to make macro evolution believable. Go on the internet search engine to find results for the definitions of those 2 terms as to prove they do not keep that definition the same in dictionary nor universities websites. So hardly a fact bein taught in science.

Micro evolution is really the Law of Biogenesis which is life did not come from nothing, but life comes from similar life. So the use of micro evolution is a bait & switch con game in this false science by blurring what micro evolution to mean so macro evolution is believable.

Problem is, The Law of Biogenesis says the genetic information for a fish to get legs is NOT coming out of nowhere. It can only become a different kind of fish, but still a fish. A cow will always be a cow even if it becomes a different specie or breed of a cow.

Real science is about what can be observed and proven. The definition for a valid scientific theory is that the phenomenon has to be observed in the natural world; and the phenomenon of macroevolution can never be observed in the natural world thus it cannot be proven.

Evolutionists would troll out the theory of gravity and drop something to show the phenomenon of gravity for why that theory exists and they stop there because they cannot give an example of macroevolution to observe in the real world to prove that it exists.

This false science has false dating results by their dating methods as proven within human history. They even have 3 different carbon dating results for the same wooly mammoth from the head, to the torso and the end to prove it is not reliable. And yet they expect everyone to accept the dating results that goes beyond human history of 6,000 years?

Two reports will say that science discovered new species on a volcanic island like a new species of lizard and a new species of birds, but they did not observe these new species coming from any of the other species on the island; they just assumed because they had never seen them before. For all we know, the volcanic activity drove the lizards and the birds away from their usual habitat into the areas where man can see them, and they have been on the island all along, the new lizard from beneath the ground and the birds away from the jungle why they were not normally seen as they stayed away from the human populace. Besides that, they are still a lizard and still a bird if they ever proved they actually came from the known species on the island. They are not going to prove it because then where are the new species of man & everything else? Duh.

People believe what they want to believe, but living in denial against how the world has ben judged by a global flood is not going to change the reality of what is coming on the earth; a fiery calamity on one third of the earth will come after the rapture event which will set the stage for the coming new world order and the mark of the beast system where people will be forced to take the mark in order to buy & sell in order to survive., but that is the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth because those who take the mark of the beast will burn in the lake of fire forever... no ifs and buts about it.

I am sure most doctors would disagree with you. The medical data suggests newborn babies lack fully developed cognitive ability.
Considering the tainted education where doctors believe it is their duty to sterilize poor unwed mothers...for the sake of society; think MCU Thanos.. you should reconsider their moral fiber & integrity in any matters of life and truth.
Your just doing what religious people do every day on this forum, that is, promote an opinion from a personal interpretation of scripture supported by anecdotal evidence or personal experience and ignoring actual evidence from reality (does the debate over evolution come to mind, anybody?).
The evolution theory is a false science. even the evolutionist Stephen Jay Gould proposed that there is too huge of a gap for transitional fossils in the fossil records for Gradual Macroevolution to be true for why he had proposed Rapid Macroevolution or Punctuated Equilibrium. He believed an explosion had occurred in the fossil records in the Cambrian Period and a global flood was the caused of it. Evolutionists will argue that he did not mean one that reached the top of mountains, but what do we find? Fossilized whale bones with other fossilized marine life on the Andes Mountains BURIED TOGETHER with fossilized land animal bones. Other fossilized life can be found on mountain tops and all over inland of the continents and still nobody takes it to heart? They just believe the lies from the news article that the mountains rose suddenly from the sea trapping marine life and yet do not consider how fossilized land animals can be found with them?

So yeah.. the evidence is there as the Bible says that there are those who lie and love those that practice lies, but it doesn't matter how hard or how many of the world believe in their lies, God is coming again to judge the earth, but with fire AFTER He judges His House first at the rapture.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, …you are right and I am wrong because you read your Bible and I don’t, you believeeee… and I don’t. Haven’t heard that before.
2 Peter 3:1-18 Prophesied Fire coming on the Earth

So when the rapture should come & you be left behind, when you hear that everlasting gospel by the first angel and then see that fiery calamity about to come over the western hemisphere, know that you can still call on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, even though you will die in the fire or during the great tribulation if you happen to be on the 2/3rds part of the other side of the world to go through the great tribulation when Satan wages war on the saints.

They already are using the biochip to buy & sell in Europe but it is not the mark of the beast yet because during the great tribulation is when it is the ONLY means to buy & sell in order to survive during the great tribulation in that 2/3rds part of the world.

So may God bless you so that when you see this happens, you heard the truth to call on Him to be saved, because those who take the mark of the beast will burn forever in the lake of fire.

I do hope you put aside your prejudices and seek the Lord Jesus Christ Himself and learn of Him thru the King James Bible rather than waste your time hearing about Christianity from everybody else since He did prophesied that many shall fall away from the faith so why seek a church? Seek Him.
 

Hark

Well-known member
I say leave the kids alone. They're too young to discern truth from baloney. Religious indoctrination of children often constitutes abuse especially when fear and guilt are involved. I should know because I suffered religious abuse as a child and even as a young adult. I don't want anybody else to be victimized.

As for the "mentally challenged," it looks like you've already converted them.
Is Christianity Too Hard For You? At that link per the title in blue, may be of some interest to you for why Christianity can never be a religion.
 
So you were ripped off by religious minded Christians that thinks they can finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit, looking to you to be serious when you & they should be trusting Jesus Christ to help them to follow Him after having been saved by Him.
My trusting Christ was what led me to be ripped off in the first place. Christian apologists are quick to blame individual Christians for their many cases of deception, but they probably could not have conned anybody without the doctrines of the New Testament. Christ reputedly taught people to have faith and that they are blessed if they believe without seeing, and if people believe that they become fertile ground for con men like TV evangelists, prosperity preachers, and faith healers all of whom find the Bible to be a very handy tool to bilk people out of money.
Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

So forget about all those religious Christians and religious churches. Listen to His words because children are free to come to Him to rest in Him today. It is the religious people that have a hard time finding their rest in Jesus Christ by taking Him at His word which is all little children can do.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
I'm not going back to Christianity like a dog turning back to its vomit or a sow washed and returning to the mud. Recommending I do so is like advising a recovered alcoholic to go back to drinking but just make sure it's the right alcohol!
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Christ reputedly taught people to have faith and that they are blessed if they believe without seeing, and if people believe that they become fertile ground for con men like TV evangelists, prosperity preachers, and faith healers all of whom find the Bible to be a very handy tool to bilk people out of money.

What abysmal logic. Christ also taught people are easily deceived and there are wolves in sheep's clothing.

But no, the fact that people can selectively preach Scripture to suit their own desires, and the fact that people literally use anything for as long as the world exists to trick each other, that's not in the Bible and it's all Christianity's fault. Absolutely stellar, you could be an apologist.

If I had the snark you had, I'd say your living proof mentally challenged people could be saved... but I don't want to go that route, and I honestly question whether you weren't just culturally conformed to an empty and false external Christainity, which is just a religious deception.

As to the OP, it is the revelation of the Holy Spirit, not the intelligence, by which we grasp spiritual truths. We are not to coerce or force anyone to follow Christ, that's against his very message, but we are to preach the Gospel to all creation. Anyone like Unknown Soldier who has suffered religious abuse and has not even been exposed to what Christianity is, does not represent anything about what Christianity is actually about. I have talked to a mentally challenged kid that literally could not even talk, and yet he responded to what I was saying, and I could sense a spiritual light turn on inside him. God can reveal himself to anyone.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
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1 Corinthians 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

So do not hinder the babies, nor the little children, nor the mentally challenged from hearing the gospel to believe in Him to be saved.

Mark 10:13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

What does "suffer the little children" mean?
 
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I'm just here to offer an alternate viewpoint.
At that link per the title in blue, may be of some interest to you for why Christianity can never be a religion.
I prefer to read what you think about the issues. What does the material in that link say about the religiosity of Christianity? I am well aware that many Christian apologists are loathe to categorize Christianity as a religion. If it's a religion, then it loses some of its unique status. After all, if people can create other religions, then they could have created Christianity.
 
What abysmal logic.
It's a fact. The Bible is used very extensively to bilk people out of money. For example, Robert Tilton got his start as a preacher by visiting revival meetings to laugh at them. One day he realized that if those preachers could make easy money using the Bible to con people, then so could he. The rest is (Christian) history! He's used Jesus to con lonely folks out of their money ever since.
Christ also taught people are easily deceived and there are wolves in sheep's clothing.
Uh--yes, and I see one wolf you've yet to unclothe.
But no, the fact that people can selectively preach Scripture to suit their own desires, and the fact that people literally use anything for as long as the world exists to trick each other, that's not in the Bible and it's all Christianity's fault. Absolutely stellar, you could be an apologist.
Sure, a lot of things can be used to con people, but the Bible seems especially useful for doing so. I think much of that has to do with a woeful lack of critical thinking that's rooted in the Bible.
If I had the snark you had, I'd say your living proof mentally challenged people could be saved... but I don't want to go that route...
I think you just did go that route. It's called the love of Christ.
...and I honestly question whether you weren't just culturally conformed to an empty and false external Christainity, which is just a religious deception.
You think this is the first time I've been told this? Whenever anybody is hurt by Christianity, other Christians always call it a false Christianity.
I have talked to a mentally challenged kid that literally could not even talk, and yet he responded to what I was saying, and I could sense a spiritual light turn on inside him. God can reveal himself to anyone.
Please don't abuse children. It's illegal.

I've noticed a lack of concern on your part for those victims of your religion. Preserving your faith is far more important. Many apologists here share your priorities. We then need not wonder why there are so many victims of Christianity.
 
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Gary Mac

Well-known member
I say leave the kids alone. They're too young to discern truth from baloney. Religious indoctrination of children often constitutes abuse especially when fear and guilt are involved. I should know because I suffered religious abuse as a child and even as a young adult. I don't want anybody else to be victimized.

As for the "mentally challenged," it looks like you've already converted them.
Yes even jesus didnt didnt come to age until he was about 30 years old when He finally learned of God and His SPirit instead of the law of the temple he taught in even from a young age. Matt 3;16. Only then did God open all of Himself and His heaven to Jesus. We are no different from the same. Sadly most do not reach that same maturity in God Himself to be as He is because they cant separate themselves from the laws of the temples they creed to, to be as He is . .
 

docphin5

Well-known member
@Hark

What is the common denominator for you believing
a) that newborn babies understand the Gospel,
b) that a human reassembled his decomposing body, and
c) denying the facts of evolution?

Answer: All three beliefs are not based in reality or put another way, deny reality. At least Catholicism has made a little progress by no loner denying evolution. Evangelicals still remain clueless about our world.

If they don’t understand how our world works then how are they supposed to know how heaven operates? I think there is a verse relating to this exact point.

”If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?” (John 3:12)
 
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Hark

Well-known member
My trusting Christ was what led me to be ripped off in the first place. Christian apologists are quick to blame individual Christians for their many cases of deception, but they probably could not have conned anybody without the doctrines of the New Testament. Christ reputedly taught people to have faith and that they are blessed if they believe without seeing, and if people believe that they become fertile ground for con men like TV evangelists, prosperity preachers, and faith healers all of whom find the Bible to be a very handy tool to bilk people out of money.
The scripture can be used to prove that they are false prophets, brother.

Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

1 Corinthians 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.


How was Paul & other missionary in the field supported by willing churches besides by their trade craft which Paul was as a tentmaker??

1 Corinthians 16:1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

The church was to agreed what portion or percentage they were to take from the collection each week and set it aside for providing for missionaries when they visit so that there is no special collection to be done unless it comes across as missionaries coveting for provision. If the church already has it, then there is no appearance of coveting.

2 Corinthians 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.

Paul was grateful to the churches supplying for him at certain times as he had suffered being in need, but he trusted God that He will strengthen him regardless.

Philippians 4:10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.

So the typical con artists you see today are the very ones scripture warned you about.

1 Timothy 6:
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

So as most television evangelists lie about God blessing those who give money that they will get more money, should be obvious by those verses that He would never lead anyone by the Spirit to say that when we would be instructed to be content & trust God to provide anyway

I'm not going back to Christianity like a dog turning back to its vomit or a sow washed and returning to the mud. Recommending I do so is like advising a recovered alcoholic to go back to drinking but just make sure it's the right alcohol!
Well, whenever you calm down and remember that Christ warned you in His words that false prophets will come in, as did Paul, John, & Peter, and that it will be so bad in the last days that faith will be hard to find.... as the love of most will grow cold.... you are proof of it.

You did not study the scripture to know by His words in the KJV what is false that those religious Christians misled you by.
 
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Hark

Well-known member
What does "suffer the little children" mean?
Well, His disciples were annoyed, for lack of a better word, that the little children wanted to come to Jesus and so Jesus said for His disciples to suffer the children to come to Him and had explained why... that little children are free to come to Him as well for salvation for all they can do is trus the Lord at His words.
 

Hark

Well-known member
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I'm just here to offer an alternate viewpoint.
The link to my thread in this CARM forum is my viewpoint exposing the leaven of the Pharisees that has crept into Christianity that we were arned about.

Matthew 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.....11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? 12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Is Christianity Too Hard For You?

Just be open to constructive criticism when giving an alternative viewpoint since you do give negative criticism about Christianity. I see the false prophets, but they do not represent Him for you to dismiss Him altogether.
I prefer to read what you think about the issues. What does the material in that link say about the religiosity of Christianity? I am well aware that many Christian apologists are loathe to categorize Christianity as a religion. If it's a religion, then it loses some of its unique status. After all, if people can create other religions, then they could have created Christianity.
Religion is what man can do. The Good News to man is about Jesus Christ in what He has done and can do for you.
 

Hark

Well-known member
@Hark

What is the common denominator for you believing
a) that newborn babies understand the Gospel,
b) that a human reassembled his decomposing body, and
c) denying the facts of evolution?

Answer: All three beliefs are not based in reality or put another way, deny reality. At least Catholicism has made a little progress by no loner denying evolution. Evangelicals still remain clueless about our world.
That is your opinion. BTW Catholicism are the religious Pharisees that has come in between the believer and Jesus Christ that they would not even let them come to & believe in Jesus Christ to be saved. They think God is giving them more grace to do works of the sacraments in the Catholic Church to obtain their salvation by and remaining in it too.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

So abiding in Him is how anyone can live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ as He helps us to follow Him, laying aside every weight & sin in walking in the light in fellowship with the father & the Son daily for He is in us and with us always.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

So when the simplicity of the gospel is lost in the RCC, then why have assurance that what you believe as they do is not falsehood too?
If they don’t understand how our world works then how are they supposed to know how heaven operates? I think there is a verse relating to this exact point.

”If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?” (John 3:12)
I believe you have a hard time separating what is real science from false science just as you do not see the truth about Jesus Christ as the Good News to man to know Catholicism is a departure from that Truth in Jesus Christ.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
I believe you have a hard time separating what is real science from false science just as you do not see the truth about Jesus Christ as the Good News to man to know Catholicism is a departure from that Truth in Jesus Christ.


Christianity's issue is they want to put other people on the "cross" for their existence.


Of putting other people on the cross.

and they call it "glory".
 
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