Preach the Gospel to Babies. Children, & to the Mentally Challenged

Gary Mac

Well-known member
The scripture can be used to prove that they are false prophets, brother.
Scripture cant prove anything except it can be ,misinterpreted by a carnal mind.
Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
As Jesus was unruly to those who opposed his doctrine?
1 Corinthians 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

How was Paul & other missionary in the field supported by willing churches besides by their trade craft which Paul was as a tentmaker??
Paul was self appointed and only gave his opinions about the Christ just as most religious minds do today/.
1 Corinthians 16:1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

The church was to agreed what portion or percentage they were to take from the collection each week and set it aside for providing for missionaries when they visit so that there is no special collection to be done unless it comes across as missionaries coveting for provision. If the church already has it, then there is no appearance of coveting.

2 Corinthians 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.

Paul was grateful to the churches supplying for him at certain times as he had suffered being in need, but he trusted God that He will strengthen him regardless.

Philippians 4:10 But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at the last your care of me hath flourished again; wherein ye were also careful, but ye lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. 12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. 13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 14 Notwithstanding ye have well done, that ye did communicate with my affliction.

So the typical con artists you see today are the very ones scripture warned you about.

1 Timothy 6:
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. 12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:

So as most television evangelists lie about God blessing those who give money that they will get more money, should be obvious by those verses that He would never lead anyone by the Spirit to say that when we would be instructed to be content & trust God to provide anyway


Well, whenever you calm down and remember that Christ warned you in His words that false prophets will come in, as did Paul, John, & Peter, and that it will be so bad in the last days that faith will be hard to find.... as the love of most will grow cold.... you are proof of it.

You did not study the scripture to know by His words in the KJV what is false that those religious Christians misled you by.
Con artists follow Paul in his way as a sinner instead of Jesus in his way which is perfection in the Father to be without sin. .
 

Hark

Well-known member
Christianity's issue is they want to put other people on the "cross" for their existence.


Of putting other people on the cross.

and they call it "glory".
You may need to explain that, please.

I can apply what you had said in regards to His words of meaning He wants us to die from our religious & sinful selves daily by trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

That is why we are to trust Him to help us discern how any believer is teaching us on whether we look to our selves to do the best we can by the law, aka the religious flesh or the will of man, or we rely on Jesus Christ all the time for the power & help we need to follow Him by..

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So anyone seeking their own glory or the glory of their church, should be reminded of this truth.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

So how do believers do the works of God in following Him?

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

So you will need to explain your reply if it is different in meaning in regards to religious people that are in Christianity but I'd say it is not Christianity they are preaching.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Scripture cant prove anything except it can be ,misinterpreted by a carnal mind.
Scripture can prove anything when God can cause the increase, even for a carnal mind to be able to receive.
As Jesus was unruly to those who opposed his doctrine?
You mean like the money changers in the Temple?
Paul was self appointed and only gave his opinions about the Christ just as most religious minds do today/.
The Book of Acts was written by Luke as led by the Holy Spirit. There is nothing in that Book of Acts that has Paul as self appointed.

Peter regarded the epistles of Paul's as scripture.

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

There is nothing in regards to Paul that testify of himself as of a religious mind. Paul has spoken of his religious mind as under the law to show comparison to how he is as no longer under the law as a Christian when you read Romans 7th chapter with 8thchapter with His discernment.

He even considered his former life under the law & all that he had accomplished as dung in verse 8 in 3rd chapter of Philippians.

Philippians 3:1-21
Con artists follow Paul in his way as a sinner instead of Jesus in his way which is perfection in the Father to be without sin. .
Believers can discern con artists by the words of Paul as well as other scripture with the Lord's help in applying discernment towards false leaders.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
You may need to explain that, please.

I can apply what you had said in regards to His words of meaning He wants us to die from our religious & sinful selves daily by trusting Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Galatians 2:15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

That is why we are to trust Him to help us discern how any believer is teaching us on whether we look to our selves to do the best we can by the law, aka the religious flesh or the will of man, or we rely on Jesus Christ all the time for the power & help we need to follow Him by..

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So anyone seeking their own glory or the glory of their church, should be reminded of this truth.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; 23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

So how do believers do the works of God in following Him?

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:...11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

So you will need to explain your reply if it is different in meaning in regards to religious people that are in Christianity but I'd say it is not Christianity they are preaching.

I see no difference.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

The above seems like a death sentence.

are you saying it is not?

Isn't there a text in the OT saying; roughly, 'do not beautify the altar for it is a a place of death'.
 
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Hark

Well-known member
I see no difference.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

The above seems like a death sentence.

are you saying it is not?

Isn't there a text in the OT saying; roughly, 'do not beautify the altar for it is a a place of death'.
If the Jews could not save themselves under the law in making themselves good and do good, then why do you keep seeing religion on what man is to do when they have to surrender by acknowledging they cannot do it in order to call on Jesus to save them instead?

Now if the believers recognize that state where they could not save themselves by their religious flesh, why then return to what they were doing before in doing the best they can trying to make themselves good and to do good by the deeds of the law? Here also they are to surrender by acknowledging they cannot follow Him by their merit nor willpower for why they need to believe in Him as their Good Shepherd to help them to follow Him. Then believers, like myself, free from doing the best I can in keeping the commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life can rest in Him in His New Covenant to me that He will help me to follow Him when I believe Him to be my Good Shepherd He had said He will be.

If you were lost in an unfamiliar forest in a dark valley at night and someone comes along offers you to light the way and show you the way out & to the safety of your home, that person is basically saying trust me when he asks you to follow him. So this person will let you know if you are not following him any more and if you are insistent in following your own path, he will let you until you realize you are only making things worse for yourself and ask him to continue leading you out.

If you still do not see the difference between the N Old Covenant of what the Jews can do but failing to the New Covenant of what God can do when we place our hope in Him for everything; that we are saved and He will help us to follow Him, then pray to Jesus for help to see this truth.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
If the Jews could not save themselves under the law in making themselves good and do good, then why do you keep seeing religion on what man is to do when they have to surrender by acknowledging they cannot do it in order to call on Jesus to save them instead?

Now if the believers recognize that state where they could not save themselves by their religious flesh, why then return to what they were doing before in doing the best they can trying to make themselves good and to do good by the deeds of the law? Here also they are to surrender by acknowledging they cannot follow Him by their merit nor willpower for why they need to believe in Him as their Good Shepherd to help them to follow Him. Then believers, like myself, free from doing the best I can in keeping the commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life can rest in Him in His New Covenant to me that He will help me to follow Him when I believe Him to be my Good Shepherd He had said He will be.

If you were lost in an unfamiliar forest in a dark valley at night and someone comes along offers you to light the way and show you the way out & to the safety of your home, that person is basically saying trust me when he asks you to follow him. So this person will let you know if you are not following him any more and if you are insistent in following your own path, he will let you until you realize you are only making things worse for yourself and ask him to continue leading you out.

If you still do not see the difference between the N Old Covenant of what the Jews can do but failing to the New Covenant of what God can do when we place our hope in Him for everything; that we are saved and He will help us to follow Him, then pray to Jesus for help to see this truth.

Ok .... I guess?

So you are ok with beautifying an altar of death?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Scripture can prove anything when God can cause the increase, even for a carnal mind to be able to receive.
Actually the bible is only law how to access God that He may be manifest in you.
You mean like the money changers in the Temple?
Exactly. Religious minds that cannot connect themselves to God as Jesus was connected to Him by having His same mind.
The Book of Acts was written by Luke as led by the Holy Spirit. There is nothing in that Book of Acts that has Paul as self appointed.
But when I read Paul and compare his beliefs from what Jesus said we will be if we follow him to the Father, I see many discrepancies. One of these was a sinner and stated he was, and even stated he used trickery to get people to follow him.

One of these said he was of God and sent him as example for who and what we should be and will be if. One was perfect one was not. I have chosen to follow the one who was. The one who was not has tricked more people to follow him in his laws he developed for a god as he stated, than Jesus ever did that you may be as he is instead of the one who wasnt.

If Paul is your way I understand, he just isnt my way, Jesus is.
Peter regarded the epistles of Paul's as scripture.
So did a king who authorized it that didnt even believe in God.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

There is nothing in regards to Paul that testify of himself as of a religious mind. Paul has spoken of his religious mind as under the law to show comparison to how he is as no longer under the law as a Christian when you read Romans 7th chapter with 8thchapter with His discernment.
Contrary. Paul was very clear to state that he had a religious thorn in his flesh which was his desire to be exalted beyond measure for his revelation. Which is common among most preachers to have their names on the marque.
He even considered his former life under the law & all that he had accomplished as dung in verse 8 in 3rd chapter of Philippians.
He developed his own laws, Women dont cut your hair, men cut your hair, women keep silent, etc. He claimed to be of Christ who is without sin yet preached that he was and you are just a dirty ole sinner not worthy of Gods kingdom.
Philippians 3:1-21

Believers can discern con artists by the words of Paul as well as other scripture with the Lord's help in applying discernment towards false leaders.
We can indeed discern by having the mind of God as Jesus did. Anything else and less than being as Jesus was is of another.

As I have stated, the way of Jesus to have from God Himself is the better way for me for Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for myself and He will give it me. I did and He did. If you think Jesus needed Paul instead of God Himself to open to him His heaven by His SPirit, then there is so much you have not received from God Himself as Jesus received from Him.

Jesus trusted no man only the Father nor do I. Your trust is in someone else such as Paul. Seek God first and His righteousness and let Him open His heaven to you as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16, and block out all the opinions about Him. He will guide your path, not Paul or any other.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Actually the bible is only law how to access God that He may be manifest in you.
Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God had raised Him from the dead is how one is saved and thereby reconciled to God where you can call Him Father. That is how one has access to God the Father by the only way of the Son.

It is by studying the scripture in learning of Him is how one can be led to believe in Him & His words for salvation ( John 5:39-40 for confirmation ) and how to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by trusting Him at His word ( John 6:28-29 & Luke 9:23 ).
Exactly. Religious minds that cannot connect themselves to God as Jesus was connected to Him by having His same mind.
Only the Father can draw them unto the Son; John 6:44
But when I read Paul and compare his beliefs from what Jesus said we will be if we follow him to the Father, I see many discrepancies. One of these was a sinner and stated he was,
Read carefully. Romans 7th chapter was Paul describing how he was under the law; a sinner; but in Romans 8th chapter, he is testifying how that has changed for why he is exhorting saved believers not to continue in the flesh but after the Spirit to avoid condemnation..
and even stated he used trickery to get people to follow him.
Paul placed himself under the law with 2 men that had a purification vow on themselves for why he had made that similar vow. This vow had a time limit to finish by a certain time which is required by law for Jews to perform and finished. So Paul was under this vow with 2 men as he used that time of separation with them to share the gospel. Sort of like a captive audience.
One of these said he was of God and sent him as example for who and what we should be and will be if. One was perfect one was not. I have chosen to follow the one who was. The one who was not has tricked more people to follow him in his laws he developed for a god as he stated, than Jesus ever did that you may be as he is instead of the one who wasnt.

If Paul is your way I understand, he just isnt my way, Jesus is.
Problem here is Who sent His disciples after having saved them at Pentecost to lead by examples if you are going to think like that? When you answer that question, then Jesus can send Paul too because he did not say anything that would oppose what Jesus has said & vice versa. In fact, he made it a point to say when he was speaking from himself and from when the Lord was saying thru him in 1 Corinthians 7th chapter.

Plus, Peter counted Paul's epistles as the same as scripture, and so you are not discerning Paul very well when speaking as if citing himself as a visible example to follow when he is following Jesus is not a valid excuse to dismiss him altogether.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Believing in the Lord Jesus Christ & that God had raised Him from the dead is how one is saved and thereby reconciled to God where you can call Him Father. That is how one has access to God the Father by the only way of the Son. ,
Even the Devil believes in Jesus Christ and knows who he was very well. Believing is not Gods salvation at all. Obediance to the Father to receieve from Him that what Jesus receieved from Him where God is manifest in you is His salvation.
. Believing
It is by studying the scripture in learning of Him is how one can be led to believe in Him & His words for salvation ( John 5:39-40 for confirmation ) and how to live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ by trusting Him at His word ( John 6:28-29 & Luke 9:23 ).r r
Studying the bible one can learn of Him and you can study it, quote it in Hebrew Greek and Latin but never know thew God of it, and that is as far as most go with it, they read of Him but never know Him and never receieve His promise written that He will come to you and sup with you and be in you. As Jesus prayed to Him for you to be one in Him as Jesus was one in Him in John 17.

Aww -- but when you do see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. 1 John 3. And that doesnt come by studying a bible, that comes by God Himself manifest in you.
Only the Father can draw them unto the Son; John 6:44
And all who is born of God are His sons. nits many are actually drawn to Him, they try and draw Him to themselves instead they He may obey you in a belief.
Read carefully. Romans 7th chapter was Paul describing how he was under the law; a sinner; but in Romans 8th chapter, he is testifying how that has changed for why he is exhorting saved believers not to continue in the flesh but after the Spirit to avoid condemnation..
It is better for me to follow Jesus than it is to follow another such as Paul.
Paul placed himself under the law with 2 men that had a purification vow on themselves for why he had made that similar vow. This vow had a time limit to finish by a certain time which is required by law for Jews to perform and finished. So Paul was under this vow with 2 men as he used that time of separation with them to share the gospel. Sort of like a captive audience.
Again Jesus has the better way.
Problem here is Who sent His disciples after having saved them at Pentecost to lead by examples if you are going to think like that? When you answer that question, then Jesus can send Paul too because he did not say anything that would oppose what Jesus has said & vice versa. In fact, he made it a point to say when he was speaking from himself and from when the Lord was saying thru him in 1 Corinthians 7th chapter.
Same SPirit who came to jesus and opened up all of His heaven to that man is the same One who came to 120, and same SPirit who came to Abraham, Moses, Mary, and us all who has received Him, and when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him to just as all of these were like Him. 1 John 3. He is SPirit and never has changed, same in Jesus as He was in Adam when even he became like God to know this difference. And you cannot know this same difference until you do see Him as He is as all of these did, especially Jesus.
Plus, Peter counted Paul's epistles as the same as scripture, and so you are not discerning Paul very well when speaking as if citing himself as a visible example to follow when he is following Jesus is not a valid excuse to dismiss him altogether.
It seems to be a matter of you are not discerning God very well and leaning on second hand information from opinions of others such as Paul.

Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you. You act as if God is not able but Paul is.

BTW -- Jesus couldn't even save his own disciples for every single one of them flat out denied to be identified with him in his trials and tribulations, they all rejected him. And it is the very same today, not very man are identified with the Father as Jesus was identified with Him as God demands oif us. But it was God Himself who after , came to these as He did Jesus and revealed who He really is and He does the same today in all who will receive Him in His ways to be like Him instead of another in his ways such as Paul.
 

Hark

Well-known member
Even the Devil believes in Jesus Christ and knows who he was very well. Believing is not Gods salvation at all. Obediance to the Father to receieve from Him that what Jesus receieved from Him where God is manifest in you is His salvation.

Studying the bible one can learn of Him and you can study it, quote it in Hebrew Greek and Latin but never know thew God of it, and that is as far as most go with it, they read of Him but never know Him and never receieve His promise written that He will come to you and sup with you and be in you. As Jesus prayed to Him for you to be one in Him as Jesus was one in Him in John 17.

Aww -- but when you do see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. 1 John 3. And that doesnt come by studying a bible, that comes by God Himself manifest in you.

And all who is born of God are His sons. nits many are actually drawn to Him, they try and draw Him to themselves instead they He may obey you in a belief.

It is better for me to follow Jesus than it is to follow another such as Paul.

Again Jesus has the better way.

Same SPirit who came to jesus and opened up all of His heaven to that man is the same One who came to 120, and same SPirit who came to Abraham, Moses, Mary, and us all who has received Him, and when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him to just as all of these were like Him. 1 John 3. He is SPirit and never has changed, same in Jesus as He was in Adam when even he became like God to know this difference. And you cannot know this same difference until you do see Him as He is as all of these did, especially Jesus.

It seems to be a matter of you are not discerning God very well and leaning on second hand information from opinions of others such as Paul.

Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you. You act as if God is not able but Paul is.

BTW -- Jesus couldn't even save his own disciples for every single one of them flat out denied to be identified with him in his trials and tribulations, they all rejected him. And it is the very same today, not very man are identified with the Father as Jesus was identified with Him as God demands oif us. But it was God Himself who after , came to these as He did Jesus and revealed who He really is and He does the same today in all who will receive Him in His ways to be like Him instead of another in his ways such as Paul.
Jesus is the way. He is not teaching us a way when He is pointing believers to Himself to find their rest in for why all hopes are on Him for everything as all are saved even for believing in His name, but not all will be found abiding in Him because they did not realize that Jesus is our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him since He is in us and with us always.

So if a believer goes astray, and denies Him, He still abides in them, which is why former believers are called to look to Jesus Christ for help to find the truth in exposing the lies that turned them away from Him so as to depart from iniquity just the same as carnal believers..

2 Timothy 2:10-26

If you want confirmation by Jesus's words, ... then read this about those who go astray.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Now Jesus implied that after the rapture, He will leave the 99 that are safe by going after even that one lone lost sheep, so He definitely will go after all those that have gone astray that get left behind as they will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House when you compare Paul's message at that link with His words,

He goes on to instruct churches and believers how to go after the lost sheep, and to excommunicate them if necessary to lead them to repentance as He will excommunicate them from the Marriage Supper above if they do not repent by the time the Bridegroom comes. However, He will leave the 99 to go after those that went astray.

Why? Because they have been bought with a price & sealed as His for even believing in His name as He will finish His work in them, even when left behind.

Only God can open your eyes to see the truth in His words, brother, and so you still need some pruning by Him be more fruitful.. John 15:1-2
 

Fenuay

Well-known member
I can recall a memory of being in a hospital when I was a baby and I understood the words being spoken there as one of the nurses had me at her work station, watching over me, but because I was crying, she had enough and screamed in my ear to shut up. I heard one of the other nurses to tell her to stop that, but it worked because I stopped crying out of fear.

I had another memory of me being held by my aunt as she was telling me I was her other Mommy. Another aunt was there with her when she had said that and pointed out that I had a confused look on my face and I began to cry out for my actual mother.

I have heard others testify of remembering being in their mother's womb.

So this idea that babies do not understand because they are not able to understand is assumed out of ignorance.

Muslims from all over the world have been testifying how Jesus appeared to them so they can believe in Him to be saved since their religion builds a wall that prevents them from seeking the Truth as well as anyone reaching out to them to share this truth about Jesus Christ.

So as God the Father can draw any and all that would seek Him to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved, that goes for those in the womb as He has appeared to many believers outside the womb in dreams and visions, so He can do the same for those in the wombs.

So I go to scripture which many Christians are not willing to accept or believe that the Father is capable in drawing them unto the Son to reveal the Son to them to believe even though scripture plainly says so all the while ignoring the testimonies of others in how that is possible as in what is impossible for man, is possible with God, because all those who seek Him will hear the Good News to be saved..
Babies and children tend to remember traumatic events as you noted you remember. So I don't think we want to teach the the gospel traumatically so they retain it. Let them hear about it but don't expect them to behave in a Christlike manner all the time. They need to be taught. Sure it's no problem to teach them but for them to retain it all is an unfair expectation. We teach them in small steps.
 

Fenuay

Well-known member
Even the Devil believes in Jesus Christ and knows who he was very well. Believing is not Gods salvation at all. Obediance to the Father to receieve from Him that what Jesus receieved from Him where God is manifest in you is His salvation.

Studying the bible one can learn of Him and you can study it, quote it in Hebrew Greek and Latin but never know thew God of it, and that is as far as most go with it, they read of Him but never know Him and never receieve His promise written that He will come to you and sup with you and be in you. As Jesus prayed to Him for you to be one in Him as Jesus was one in Him in John 17.

Aww -- but when you do see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. 1 John 3. And that doesnt come by studying a bible, that comes by God Himself manifest in you.

And all who is born of God are His sons. nits many are actually drawn to Him, they try and draw Him to themselves instead they He may obey you in a belief.

It is better for me to follow Jesus than it is to follow another such as Paul.

Again Jesus has the better way.

Same SPirit who came to jesus and opened up all of His heaven to that man is the same One who came to 120, and same SPirit who came to Abraham, Moses, Mary, and us all who has received Him, and when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him to just as all of these were like Him. 1 John 3. He is SPirit and never has changed, same in Jesus as He was in Adam when even he became like God to know this difference. And you cannot know this same difference until you do see Him as He is as all of these did, especially Jesus.

It seems to be a matter of you are not discerning God very well and leaning on second hand information from opinions of others such as Paul.

Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you. You act as if God is not able but Paul is.

BTW -- Jesus couldn't even save his own disciples for every single one of them flat out denied to be identified with him in his trials and tribulations, they all rejected him. And it is the very same today, not very man are identified with the Father as Jesus was identified with Him as God demands oif us. But it was God Himself who after , came to these as He did Jesus and revealed who He really is and He does the same today in all who will receive Him in His ways to be like Him instead of another in his ways such as Paul.
Why do you write SPirit with the capital SP?
 

Hark

Well-known member
Babies and children tend to remember traumatic events as you noted you remember. So I don't think we want to teach the the gospel traumatically so they retain it. Let them hear about it but don't expect them to behave in a Christlike manner all the time. They need to be taught. Sure it's no problem to teach them but for them to retain it all is an unfair expectation. We teach them in small steps.
You are forgetting about the One whose job is to retain it by reminding them of all Jesus has taught them.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So just as it is on God to cause the increase, it is on God to remind us too.

That goes for people with failing memories for He is faithful as our Good Shepherd.

So suffer them to come to the door of Jesus Christ and since it is the Father that draws all unto the Son, then leave it in God's hands for all kinds of ministry.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.......44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We put too much emphasis on us to get through to anyone, even the children, when the yoke is easy & the burden is light because God causes the increase; the result is not of us.

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
 

Fenuay

Well-known member
You are forgetting about the One whose job is to retain it by reminding them of all Jesus has taught them.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

So just as it is on God to cause the increase, it is on God to remind us too.

That goes for people with failing memories for He is faithful as our Good Shepherd.

So suffer them to come to the door of Jesus Christ and since it is the Father that draws all unto the Son, then leave it in God's hands for all kinds of ministry.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.......44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We put too much emphasis on us to get through to anyone, even the children, when the yoke is easy & the burden is light because God causes the increase; the result is not of us.

2 Corinthians 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
I don't disagree with teaching them. I just don't think it's right to expect a lot of retention.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
You are forgetting about the One whose job is to retain it by reminding them of all Jesus has taught them.

Impartations of truth can go past the mind and it's abilities. We have a spiritual side that is receptive. I would never put a high demand on someone who has extreme limitations, but even when they don't understand everything the Holy Spirit can impart things to them.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Jesus is the way. He is not teaching us a way when He is pointing believers to Himself to find their rest in for why all hopes are on Him for everything as all are saved even for believing in His name, but not all will be found abiding in Him because they did not realize that Jesus is our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him since He is in us and with us always.
Agreed he teaches us to have the very same from the Father he had from Him. He is the way the truth and the life we all live who has followed him to the Father. And he was spot on, no one comes to the Father except this way.
So if a believer goes astray, and denies Him, He still abides in them, which is why former believers are called to look to Jesus Christ for help to find the truth in exposing the lies that turned them away from Him so as to depart from iniquity just the same as carnal believers..
It is a matter of what one believes. A believer as in Satan believes, or a Catholic, or a Mormon, or a Muslim, Baptist, AOG, COC, Charismatic?

But we who are of God it isnt a belief at all it is God manifest Himself in us just as He did in Jesus.
2 Timothy 2:10-26

If you want confirmation by Jesus's words, ... then read this about those who go astray.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
If you want confirmation by Jesus words then, be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. Be one in the Father with He in you and you in Him as one as Jesus was one in Him and He was in Jesus as one, as Jesus was clear in prayer to his God for you to be in John 17. And walk as He walks in His same light as Jesus and have the same signs follow you as Jesus stated it will. And no one come to the Father but by me having the same from the Father His way His truth and His life as Jesus did and no one come to the Father but this way.

Not many hear him that they may walk as he walks in His same light with the same signs following do they?


Now Jesus implied that after the rapture, He will leave the 99 that are safe by going after even that one lone lost sheep, so He definitely will go after all those that have gone astray that get left behind as they will be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House when you compare Paul's message at that link with His words,
After the rapture? All who has received form God that what Jesus received from Him are taken out of this world, we are no longer of it as you are of it, we are of His kingdom that is Spirit and doesnt come with observation but is within us, Luke 17:20-21. You are of this world is all and do not know what it is to be of His kingdom, that is very obvious.
He goes on to instruct churches and believers how to go after the lost sheep, and to excommunicate them if necessary to lead them to repentance as He will excommunicate them from the Marriage Supper above if they do not repent by the time the Bridegroom comes. However, He will leave the 99 to go after those that went astray.
He goes on and instructs you to be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect and have the same from the Father he had from Him, John 17, same mind, same walk as He walks as Jesus walked in it yourself. .
Why? Because they have been bought with a price & sealed as His for even believing in His name as He will finish His work in them, even when left behind.
That price is you giving up the right to yourself, self sacrifice, and putting on the same Spirit be in you who was in Christ Jesus. But you know and I know and God knows you will not give up your religious beliefs to receieve from Him that what Jesus did to walk as He walks in His same light will you? You are left behind already.
Only God can open your eyes to see the truth in His words, brother, and so you still need some pruning by Him be more fruitful.. John 15:1-2
So you have a better way for me than God Himself has given me as He gave Jesus? Jesus was clear that in that day I do receive from God that what he received from God I will not have to go to Jesus for anything but God Himself will give it me.

So you try and convince me as you have tried already -- that you have the better way than God Himself is able and has given me as He gave Jesus Himself that you deem His way to be inferior and you have the better way.

SO explain to me why is your way better for me to be like you instead of His way for me to be like Him that you are superior over Him in His ways for mankind that we may be as you are instead of Him?

You say only God can open my eyes yet you say your way to open them is superior over His Spirit be in me who opened my eyes just as He opend the eyes of Jesus in Matt 3:16 where all of heaven was opend to him as well by the same SPirit be in me who was in Christ Jesus. ,

If you are a god as you claim and you have the better way, just say so that I may follow you instead of the One who came to Jesus and sent him to show me the way to his God.

You claim your god is superior over the One who sent Jesus, you will have to prove your god is superior, until then I will cling to the One Jesus lead me to.
 
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