Preaching the Gospel !

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Okay, I understand.But I don't think "genetic" is a very good term, because, at least to me, it suggests a physical essence of sin. It is not!

What if we looked at it from a relational/positional perspective. The earth is the perfect place for life because of its relative position to the Sun. Life, as we know it, is not possible on Venus (too hot) or Mars (too cold). Relationships are similar, but not in a spatial sense. Children are naturally more susceptible to faith if they are raised in a Christian environment and tend to find Christ earlier and stay faithful longer per Proverbs 22:6. But the longer one is not exposed to such teaching and/or is raised in an ungodly environment, the less likely they are to believe. Statistics show that the largest part of believers (85%) became such between the ages of 4-14.

My point is, that God is "not very far from any one of us" (Acts 17:27), and there is a definite relationship with age and proximity to the gospel and Biblical truth. The "enmity" factor is not as prevalent in those younger and exposed to the gospel, and it grows significantly stronger the older you get and thus is more difficult to overcome the power of sin when the gospel is presented.

I would think that if there is a static principle that enmity is a set factor that acts the same at age 4 as it does at age 90, then the number of 10 year olds becoming believers and 60 year olds would be more similar. Indeed, there is a decided advantage if one is exposed more amply and earlier in life than if not if one is to become a committed believer. The "genetic" approach would not seem to predict what we see in real life. Enmity with God is something that gains strength and prominence in direct relationship to the amount of exposure to the teachings of scripture at an early age, suggesting that nurture as well as nature are pertinent and serve to mitigate the severity and power of "enmity" against God and resistance to the gospel. This, I think, demonstrates that prevenient gracious movement and activity of God that clearly shows that the effects of the sinful nature are not as strong in our early years as it is in layer years, and the experience in later years is strongly affected by consistent exposure to biblical teachings in the early years.


Doug
Yeah, I would compare the wordly definition of a genetic disposition, to a Fallen spiritual disposition; since we all are discussing the Spiritual nature of things here. Just as a genetic disposition can only be cured by affecting the genetics, a spiritual disposition can only be cured by affecting the spirit. Let me cut to the chase; you know why I'm investigating this, to use it to show that Regeneration precedes the Will (we already agree that Efficacious Grace precedes the Will). I'm trying to find out if Enmity ceases because our Nature is Born Again...
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
Election is also Eternal !

Election does not occur in time, and it was not contingent upon mans foreseen choices of good and evil in time, as Paul points out here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

But it was God's special choice of individual's before the foundation Eph 1:4273

4 According as he hath chosen us [as individuals] in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Also it is written, that certain individuals, their names [persons] were written in the Book of Life, from the foundation Rev 17:8

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
Yeah, I would compare the wordly definition of a genetic disposition, to a Fallen spiritual disposition; since we all are discussing the Spiritual nature of things here. Just as a genetic disposition can only be cured by affecting the genetics, a spiritual disposition can only be cured by affecting the spirit. Let me cut to the chase; you know why I'm investigating this, to use it to show that Regeneration precedes the Will (we already agree that Efficacious Grace precedes the Will). I'm trying to find out if Enmity ceases because our Nature is Born Again...
Okay, well in that case, I would say that Romans 8 would deny that cessation, because we, as believers, can still follow the sinful nature which is enmity will god. To me, at this point of my musing, what is changed is the ability to follow the Spirit by means of Christ's condemnation of the sinful nature. (Rom 8:3) Since Rom 8:12-13 establishes an either/or scenario, enmity is only thwarted by following the Spirit, i.e., obedience!

If it were as you argue, then enmity would no longer be possible, because the nature is changed and a changed nature necessarily begets a change of behavioral activity that conforms to that nature. If the nature is, in itself, not at enmity with God, then it can do no other than not be at enmity.

Doug
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Okay, well in that case, I would say that Romans 8 would deny that cessation, because we, as believers, can still follow the sinful nature which is enmity will god. To me, at this point of my musing, what is changed is the ability to follow the Spirit by means of Christ's condemnation of the sinful nature. (Rom 8:3) Since Rom 8:12-13 establishes an either/or scenario, enmity is only thwarted by following the Spirit, i.e., obedience!

If it were as you argue, then enmity would no longer be possible, because the nature is changed and a changed nature necessarily begets a change of behavioral activity that conforms to that nature. If the nature is, in itself, not at enmity with God, then it can do no other than not be at enmity.

Doug
Ah, that's interesting. I think we may define Enmity differently though; I wouldn't say that our Old Man is at Enmity with God, but you give me something to think about for sure. Right now, I think that when the Bible says we're at Enmity with God, it means pre-Salvation only. ~ IE Categories...

If I develop my point, it may be a while before I'm done...
 
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TibiasDad

Well-known member
Ah, that's interesting. I think we may define Enmity differently though; I wouldn't say that our Old Man is at Enmity with God, but you give me something to think about for sure. Right now, I think that when the Bible says we're at Enmity with God, it means pre-Salvation only. ~ IE Categories...

If I develop my point, it may be a while before I'm done...
If you are maintaining that enmity is a trait of the sinful nature, then the Old Man is necessarily at enmity!

Doug
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
If you are maintaining that enmity is a trait of the sinful nature, then the Old Man is necessarily at enmity!

Doug
The Old Man is, but we are new creatures; so I don't think that counts. We are not the Old Man, he is Remaining Sin. Would you preach to your Congregation that in some respects, we're at Emnity with God?
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
The Old Man is, but we are new creatures; so I don't think that counts. We are not the Old Man, he is Remaining Sin. Would you preach to your Congregation that in some respects, we're at Emnity with God?
I would preach that we are capable of being so if we continue to follow the sinful nature. I think the Old Man is a reference to our old nature, as Colossians 3:9 says, "Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices."

Doug
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost

For those God has not purposed to save through the Preaching of the Gospel as He does these 1 Cor 1:18,21

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Now, to those that God hath not purposed to save by that means, the Gospel is hid to them 2 Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost[No hope]:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now though satan, the prince and god of this world is the intermediate secondary cause of the gospel being hid, Yet God is the First and primary cause, we know this by Jesus words Matt 11:25-26

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Yes, those who Jesus is here stating that God has hidden these things from, are the same as those Paul says that the Gospel is hid from them, these are the Lost, that are outside the lost that Jesus came to seek and to save , otherwise Jesus is very confused in His Thanksgiving to the Father here Matt 11:25274

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Notice Paul mentions the wise and prudent also here 1 Cor 1:19

For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

And He mentions them again in the Second Epistle 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The Gospel as the Word of Grace, The Word of the Kingdom, it shall be made effectual when it is communicated to the Heirs of Grace or the Heirs of Salvation Heb 1:14, the Good Ground hearers Matt 13:23, made so by the New Birth, this is pointed out here 1 Pet 1:23-25275

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Note: Heirs of Salvation denotes their final Salvation when finally inheriting Eternal Glory !
 

civic

Well-known member
I would preach that we are capable of being so if we continue to follow the sinful nature. I think the Old Man is a reference to our old nature, as Colossians 3:9 says, "Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices."

Doug
And it doesn't say God has taken off our old self, but we have. Good point !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Grace Given before the World Began !

That Grace was given some in Christ Jesus before the World began as Per 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This is also taught by Paul in Eph 1:4-6

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

By that same Grace given then, we were made accepted [or highly favoured] in the Beloved, to the Praise of the Glory of His Grace !

This is a Gospel Truth of the Gospel of God's Grace Acts 20:24

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The gospel of your salvation:

Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

When it comes to Salvation or being saved 1 Cor 1:18, the Gospel is God's good news and revelation to one of their Salvation Eph 1:13; Rom 1:16-17, a Salvation that is already theirs by God's Sovereign Grace, and so its no offer of Salvation as the followers of men would have us believe !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Preaching all the counsel of God in the Gospel !

Acts 20:24-27

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

In Preaching the Gospel of God's Grace, we cannot shun or keep back in declaring all the counsel of God See Eph 1:11278

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Of which counsel is the Election of Grace, and the Reprobation of the rest; Quite frankly there could be no Election of Grace unto Salvation without also being no election to damnation, since that is how God Purposed to manifest His Saving Grace ! Neither are either Election of grace or damnation of reprobation based upon seen conditions, there were no seen conditions in them that God Elected or Rejected, this is indicated here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Gods Grace given to some and witheld from others is based solely upon God's own Good Pleasure, for the Praise of the Glory of His Grace Eph 1:6; Now if we do not preach Grace and Salvation in this manner, then we are guilty of shunning to declare all the counsel of God in the Gospel !
 

newheart78

Well-known member
Preaching all the counsel of God in the Gospel !

Acts 20:24-27

24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

In Preaching the Gospel of God's Grace, we cannot shun or keep back in declaring all the counsel of God See Eph 1:11278

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Of which counsel is the Election of Grace, and the Reprobation of the rest; Quite frankly there could be no Election of Grace unto Salvation without also being no election to damnation, since that is how God Purposed to manifest His Saving Grace ! Neither are either Election of grace or damnation of reprobation based upon seen conditions, there were no seen conditions in them that God Elected or Rejected, this is indicated here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Gods Grace given to some and witheld from others is based solely upon God's own Good Pleasure, for the Praise of the Glory of His Grace Eph 1:6; Now if we do not preach Grace and Salvation in this manner, then we are guilty of shunning to declare all the counsel of God in the Gospel !
Amen indeed Brother !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
To Preach Election in the Gospel of God's Grace is seen here in Paul's Preaching in the First Chapter of the Ephesians 1:3-6

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Please note how he culminates that passage of God's Grace, all that preceded ends with "To the Praise of the Glory of His Grace "

Being Chosen in Him before the foundation of the World is Gospel Grace and being predestinated unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ is Gospel Grace !

Being accepted in the beloved before the world began is Gospel Grace, and all this was to the praise of the Glory of His Grace !

Folks there is no Preaching Salvation by Grace, while wit holding Particular , discriminating Grace in God, choosing who He will and only some of mankind for Salvation by His Marvelous Grace !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What God has done for all those Christ died for !

1 Cor 1:30,29

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Now what is this sanctification, that God made Christ unto those Christ died for ?

The greek word is hagiasmos and means:

consecration, purification

2) the effect of consecration

a) sanctification of heart and life

The word means here in this context, the inherent grace or spiritual enablement to live a consecrated life unto God. That is why it is said that He made us Priests and Kings unto our God Rev 1:6 !

Without this sanctification we would never come to God, so it is that we come to God by HIM [Jesus Christ] Heb 7:25

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

The word by here is the greek prep dia and means:

the ground or reason by which something is or is not done

1) by reason of

2) on account of

3) because of for this reason

4) therefore

5) on this account

So we come to God on account of Him ! The Fruit of His Death and Intercession !

So it is by this sanctification by Christ made unto us, that we are able to perform habits of grace and spiritual duties, and this is why Christ tells His Disciples Jn 15:5280

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do or perform nothing. That is of any Spiritual value !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What God has done for all those Christ died for ! cont

Christ being of God unto all for whom He died, Sanctification as Per 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

And that this Sanctification is an inward communication of Spiritual enablement, it is confirmed in Hebrews, where comparisons of the effects of the offerings made under the Law by its high priests, and the Offering made by Christ the Great His Priest of an Superior Covenant, lets notice Heb 9:11-14

11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience or soul from dead works to serve the living God?

The Blood of Christ effects inward and soul reaching Sanctification or purging this word purge is the greek word katharizō:


to consecrate by cleansing or purifying

Consecrate means to set apart to the Service of God. This is because Christ's Blood alone redeems us Spiritually and causes us to Live and Serve the Living God. This is the outcome of Christ having of God been made unto us Sanctification 1 Cor 1:30 !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What God has done for all those Christ died for ! cont

We are looking at the fact that Christ has been made of God unto all for whom He died " Sanctification"

This sanctification provides us [those whom Christ for or in behalf of] A New Heart, A New Spirit, A New sanctified Understanding of the Gospel , which is a must to even begin to understand the Gospel Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Also with the New Heart and New Spirit comes New sanctified desires and affections for the things of God, so with this principle of sanctification, we are enabled to seek and desire those things pleasing to God, we are enabled to perform Spiritual Obedience to the Commands of the Gospel such as Believe or and Repent ! Acts 17:30; Acts 16:31

Yes, these are Gospel commands of obedience to those who have been Given a New Spirit, A New Heart, and a New Understanding through New Birth, which is How Christ is made unto us Sanctification !
 

newheart78

Well-known member
What God has done for all those Christ died for ! cont

We are looking at the fact that Christ has been made of God unto all for whom He died " Sanctification"

This sanctification provides us [those whom Christ for or in behalf of] A New Heart, A New Spirit, A New sanctified Understanding of the Gospel , which is a must to even begin to understand the Gospel Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Also with the New Heart and New Spirit comes New sanctified desires and affections for the things of God, so with this principle of sanctification, we are enabled to seek and desire those things pleasing to God, we are enabled to perform Spiritual Obedience to the Commands of the Gospel such as Believe or and Repent ! Acts 17:30; Acts 16:31

Yes, these are Gospel commands of obedience to those who have been Given a New Spirit, A New Heart, and a New Understanding through New Birth, which is How Christ is made unto us Sanctification !

Amen Brother, all those Christ died for, even though they are born into this world ungodly, yet at the same time, are perfectly Sanctified by Christ's Death on their behalf. And so as a result, in Time each one shall be sanctified experimentally by being given a New Heart in New Birth:
A Sanctification of Heart and Spiritual Life which conforms us to the Holy Will of God !
 
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