Preaching the Gospel !

brightfame52

Well-known member
Where's the beef


not one that demonstrates what is being asked for

Book, chapter and verse

that actually speaks of unconditional election to salvation
Did you read post 8? Many mistakenly and erroneously teach that Grace is offered. That is false it's given!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The Gospel of Gods Grace cont
One of the Major Tenants of the Gospel of Gods Grace is that its grounded in election..

Rom 11:5

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now this in context is speaking about jews in israel, however its not limited to them, for there is also a remnant [residue] in the gentiles who are of the election of grace..

James speaks of them here:

Acts 15:14-18

14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.


15
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Notice to take out of them [gentiles] a people, not all of them, but a residue..

Interesting, because the word remnant in Rom 11 5 is the greek word:

leimma which means: its from the root

leipō which means:


to leave, leave behind, forsake, to be left behind

The ideal is that which is left over..

Now the word in Acts 15 17 residue is the greek word:

kataloipos which means:

left remaining

So we see how those two words give the same identical meaning..that of whats left over, or left behind..

This points back to the truth that within the Jews there was a election of grace, and in the gentiles there is a election of grace..

And with both groups, they are part of the whole of the people, hence clearly indicative that only some of each people group are election of grace..

Its only a remnant of mankind that is saved by grace as in Eph 2 :8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Yes, the election of grace in Rom 11 5 and the salvation by grace through faith [Eph 2 8] are the same thing..

Notice how after each reference to grace in each verse they are followed by a denial of works

Rom 11 :6

6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Eph 2 9

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

BTW the faith in Eph 2 8 is not the Faith of the Individual, but the Faith of Jesus Christ, His Faithfulness

So the elect are said to be saved by grace through [ Christ Faithfulness,] which means, the faith was not of our own, but the gift of God..for Jesus Christ is Gods Gift to the election of grace..[Rom 8:32]

Jesus is said to be the gift here Jn 4:10

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jesus was the Gift of God not only to the Jewish elect, but to the World..Jn 3:16


16For God so loved the world [Jew and gentile elect], that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Now, in preaching the election of grace, the remnant from the rest, then who are the rest ? Remeber paul said:

Rom 11:7

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The rest are the reprobates in the world, the children of hell, the seed of the serpent, the tares, those of perdition, the blinded..the cast aways paul speaks of:

1 Cor 9:27

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
[ reprobate]

So there is no such thing as preaching the Gospel of Gods grace without preaching the rejection of the reprobated,[vessels of wrath] for that

fact aids in defining and clarifying the Nature of Salvation by Grace, its

discriminate nature, and Hence Gods people percieve they are special to God..above all other peoples of the earth [Deut 7:6]

There is simply no way to Preach salvation by Grace without preaching Sovereign Discriminating Grace for some [the election of grace] and reprobation for others
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Its not there

Why can't you produce a verse which actually speaks of unconditional particular election to salvation
I'm a bible teacher and use scripture from all over the scripture. That is how the scriptures are taught to the Sheep Isa 28 10,13

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Now read carefully how I use the scriptures.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The Gospel of Gods Grace cont
One of the Major Tenants of the Gospel of Gods Grace is that its grounded in election..

Rom 11:5

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now this in context is speaking about jews in israel, however its not limited to them, for there is also a remnant [residue] in the gentiles who are of the election of grace..

James speaks of them here:

Acts 15:14-18

14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.


15
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Notice to take out of them [gentiles] a people, not all of them, but a residue..

Interesting, because the word remnant in Rom 11 5 is the greek word:

leimma which means: its from the root

leipō which means:


to leave, leave behind, forsake, to be left behind

The ideal is that which is left over..

Now the word in Acts 15 17 residue is the greek word:

kataloipos which means:

left remaining

So we see how those two words give the same identical meaning..that of whats left over, or left behind..

This points back to the truth that within the Jews there was a election of grace, and in the gentiles there is a election of grace..

And with both groups, they are part of the whole of the people, hence clearly indicative that only some of each people group are election of grace..

Its only a remnant of mankind that is saved by grace as in Eph 2 :8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Yes, the election of grace in Rom 11 5 and the salvation by grace through faith [Eph 2 8] are the same thing..

Notice how after each reference to grace in each verse they are followed by a denial of works

Rom 11 :6

6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Eph 2 9

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

BTW the faith in Eph 2 8 is not the Faith of the Individual, but the Faith of Jesus Christ, His Faithfulness

So the elect are said to be saved by grace through [ Christ Faithfulness,] which means, the faith was not of our own, but the gift of God..for Jesus Christ is Gods Gift to the election of grace..[Rom 8:32]

Jesus is said to be the gift here Jn 4:10

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jesus was the Gift of God not only to the Jewish elect, but to the World..Jn 3:16


16For God so loved the world [Jew and gentile elect], that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Now, in preaching the election of grace, the remnant from the rest, then who are the rest ? Remeber paul said:

Rom 11:7

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The rest are the reprobates in the world, the children of hell, the seed of the serpent, the tares, those of perdition, the blinded..the cast aways paul speaks of:

1 Cor 9:27

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
[ reprobate]

So there is no such thing as preaching the Gospel of Gods grace without preaching the rejection of the reprobated,[vessels of wrath] for that

fact aids in defining and clarifying the Nature of Salvation by Grace, its

discriminate nature, and Hence Gods people percieve they are special to God..above all other peoples of the earth [Deut 7:6]

There is simply no way to Preach salvation by Grace without preaching Sovereign Discriminating Grace for some [the election of grace] and reprobation for others
Unconditional particular election is still not found in the bible

and the apostles managed to preach the gospel without ever mentioning it
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I'm a bible teacher and use scripture from all over the scripture. That is how the scriptures are taught to the Sheep Isa 28 10,13

For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Now read carefully how I use the scriptures.
You are a bible teacher and you cannot produce a single verse which actually speaks of unconditional particular election ?

And you want people to believe something you cannot demonstrate ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
The Gospel of Gods Grace cont
One of the Major Tenants of the Gospel of Gods Grace is that its grounded in election..

Rom 11:5

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Now this in context is speaking about jews in israel, however its not limited to them, for there is also a remnant [residue] in the gentiles who are of the election of grace..

James speaks of them here:

Acts 15:14-18

14Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.


15
And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Notice to take out of them [gentiles] a people, not all of them, but a residue..

Interesting, because the word remnant in Rom 11 5 is the greek word:

leimma which means: its from the root

leipō which means:


to leave, leave behind, forsake, to be left behind

The ideal is that which is left over..

Now the word in Acts 15 17 residue is the greek word:

kataloipos which means:

left remaining

So we see how those two words give the same identical meaning..that of whats left over, or left behind..

This points back to the truth that within the Jews there was a election of grace, and in the gentiles there is a election of grace..

And with both groups, they are part of the whole of the people, hence clearly indicative that only some of each people group are election of grace..

Its only a remnant of mankind that is saved by grace as in Eph 2 :8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.



Yes, the election of grace in Rom 11 5 and the salvation by grace through faith [Eph 2 8] are the same thing..

Notice how after each reference to grace in each verse they are followed by a denial of works

Rom 11 :6

6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Eph 2 9

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

BTW the faith in Eph 2 8 is not the Faith of the Individual, but the Faith of Jesus Christ, His Faithfulness

So the elect are said to be saved by grace through [ Christ Faithfulness,] which means, the faith was not of our own, but the gift of God..for Jesus Christ is Gods Gift to the election of grace..[Rom 8:32]

Jesus is said to be the gift here Jn 4:10

Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Jesus was the Gift of God not only to the Jewish elect, but to the World..Jn 3:16


16For God so loved the world [Jew and gentile elect], that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

Now, in preaching the election of grace, the remnant from the rest, then who are the rest ? Remeber paul said:

Rom 11:7

7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

The rest are the reprobates in the world, the children of hell, the seed of the serpent, the tares, those of perdition, the blinded..the cast aways paul speaks of:

1 Cor 9:27

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
[ reprobate]

So there is no such thing as preaching the Gospel of Gods grace without preaching the rejection of the reprobated,[vessels of wrath] for that

fact aids in defining and clarifying the Nature of Salvation by Grace, its

discriminate nature, and Hence Gods people percieve they are special to God..above all other peoples of the earth [Deut 7:6]

There is simply no way to Preach salvation by Grace without preaching Sovereign Discriminating Grace for some [the election of grace] and reprobation for others
In that entire work there is not one scripture that testifies to unconditional election and reprobation

Further where is the good news in unconditional reprobation

Its no gospel at all
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
In that entire work there is not one scripture that testifies to unconditional election and reprobation

Further where is the good news in unconditional reprobation

Its no gospel at all
Ok.Im testifying the words God has given me about the Gospel of Gods Grace and unconditional election is part of the Gospel of Gods Grace. You receive it or not, that is between you and God
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
cont Gospel of Gods Grace [it reigns]

cont Gospel of Gods Grace [it reigns]

In proclaiming the Gospel of Gods Grace, it must be proclaimed that it is Sovereign, it Reigns as a King..

Rom 5:21

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now how Sovereign is death ? Can any man resist death ? Can you use your freewill to dictate when your going to die ?

The wise man said:

Ecc 3:2

2 A time to be born, and a time to die;

Ecc 8:8


There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.

You see that ? Death has uncontrollable Sovereignty over all men..because it reigns by the decree of the Almighty..

But. Grace Reigns even more so than death.

The word for reign in the Rom 5 21 verse is :

basileuō and means:

to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign

metaph. to exercise the highest influence, to control

Grace is more Sovereign and has a Higher Influence of control than Death has..

Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5 20

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin[and death] abounded, grace did much more abound:

Whatever uncontrollable Sovereignty Death has over Men, even Grace much More..

A person can resist death moreso than Gods Grace..

Grace brings Salvation [in power and Glory] to all men ..that is all types and sorts of Men..

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

The Ideal here is not as the man made ministers and followers say, that is grace is merely made available to all or that its offered to all..

No thats a short change. But the Sovereign Grace of God comes to all the election of Grace of men in their various times and conditions and most powerfully brings their salvation of the Lord to them ! That they may experience and enjoy it and bless the Lord for it
..
Like saul who became paul Acts 9..thats an illustration of Grace bringing Salvation to one of the all men for whom it was designed..

Jesus said of zacchaeus lk 19:8

And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a Son of Abraham.

You see that ? Salvation, the Grace of it came, brought to Him his appointed salvation as a Son of Abraham..

Hence, preaching the Gospel of Gods Grace, the True Servant of God declares that Grace Reigns through righteousness unto eternal life, through, not freewill, but through Jesus Christ
 

TomFL

Well-known member
cont Gospel of Gods Grace [it reigns]

cont Gospel of Gods Grace [it reigns]

In proclaiming the Gospel of Gods Grace, it must be proclaimed that it is Sovereign, it Reigns as a King..

Rom 5:21

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Now how Sovereign is death ? Can any man resist death ? Can you use your freewill to dictate when your going to die ?

The wise man said:

Ecc 3:2

2 A time to be born, and a time to die;

Ecc 8:8


There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.

You see that ? Death has uncontrollable Sovereignty over all men..because it reigns by the decree of the Almighty..

But. Grace Reigns even more so than death.

The word for reign in the Rom 5 21 verse is :

basileuō and means:

to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign

metaph. to exercise the highest influence, to control

Grace is more Sovereign and has a Higher Influence of control than Death has..

Rom 5:17

For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom 5 20

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin[and death] abounded, grace did much more abound:

Whatever uncontrollable Sovereignty Death has over Men, even Grace much More..

A person can resist death moreso than Gods Grace..

Grace brings Salvation [in power and Glory] to all men ..that is all types and sorts of Men..

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

The Ideal here is not as the man made ministers and followers say, that is grace is merely made available to all or that its offered to all..

No thats a short change. But the Sovereign Grace of God comes to all the election of Grace of men in their various times and conditions and most powerfully brings their salvation of the Lord to them ! That they may experience and enjoy it and bless the Lord for it
..
Like saul who became paul Acts 9..thats an illustration of Grace bringing Salvation to one of the all men for whom it was designed..

Jesus said of zacchaeus lk 19:8

And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a Son of Abraham.

You see that ? Salvation, the Grace of it came, brought to Him his appointed salvation as a Son of Abraham..

Hence, preaching the Gospel of Gods Grace, the True Servant of God declares that Grace Reigns through righteousness unto eternal life, through, not freewill, but through Jesus Christ

Not one word there about unconditional particular election

and btw you quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirming an unlimited atonement
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not one word there about unconditional particular election

and btw you quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirming an unlimited atonement
Im talking about Preaching Grace. There is the Gospel of Gods Grace, Im explaining it Acts 20:24

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Im talking about Preaching Grace. There is the Gospel of Gods Grace, Im explaining it Acts 20:24

But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God

Still
Not one word there about unconditional particular election

and btw you quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirming an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Still
Not one word there about unconditional particular election

and btw you quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirming an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
Do you preach Salvation by the Grace of God ? More importantly do you know/understand what it is ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Do you preach Salvation by the Grace of God ? More importantly do you know/understand what it is ?
Don't run from what was stated

still Not one word there about unconditional particular election

and btw you quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirming an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Don't run from what was stated

still Not one word there about unconditional particular election

and btw you quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirming an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
I didnt thik you would care to discuss Preaching the Gospel of Gods Grace. Grace is Sovereign you know ? That should be testified unto !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I didnt thik you would care to discuss Preaching the Gospel of Gods Grace. Grace is Sovereign you know ? That should be testified unto !
Not going to stop running are you


still Not one word there about unconditional particular election

and btw you quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirms an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not going to stop running are you


still Not one word there about unconditional particular election

and btw you quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirms an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
Gods Grace is Sovereign, it reigns through righteousness of Jesus Christ ! Thats Part of the Gospel of Grace. Do you know what the word reigns mean ? Rom 5 21


that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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