Preaching the Gospel !

TomFL

Well-known member
Gods Grace is Sovereign, it reigns through righteousness of Jesus Christ ! Thats Part of the Gospel of Grace. Do you know what the word reigns mean ? Rom 5 21


that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

When are you going to provide evidence that unconditional election and reprobation is the gospel

and btw your quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirms an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
When are you going to provide evidence that unconditional election and reprobation is the gospel

and btw your quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirms an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
Evidence for what I stated has been provided !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Evidence for what I stated has been provided !
Never

When are you going to provide evidence that unconditional election and reprobation is the gospel

and btw your quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirms an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Another aspect of preaching Gods Grace

When Preaching the gospel of Gods grace, it must be made clear that it is Sovereign, in that it reigns as a King, this is clearly taught by paul here:

Rom 5:21

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might [for the purpose of] grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Again the word for reign is

basileuō which means:

to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign
This means, that King Jesus is exercising His Kingly Power of His Grace in converting His elect..

remember what Jesus said to His sent preachers in Matt ? Matt 28:18

18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Jesus communicates His kingly Grace to the chosen members of His body for their spiritual conversion and wellbeing..
Jn 1:16

16And of his fulness have all we [the election of grace] received, and grace for grace.

We, the elect receive it in time, for it was given us in Him before Time began..2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Was given is a aorist past tense, and the time of the giving is clearly set forth as before the world began..

Now, this Grace, which is communicated by The risen Sovereign Lord, is communicated unto each member of His body He died for, this Grace is nothing Short of Gods Al Mighty Spiritual power.
.
This spiritual power reigns unto life, and it is effectual in its intentions Paul tells us Eph 3:7

7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

This is true of all the saints of God, regarding our conversion experience, its by grace given [ by our Head] us by the effectual working of His Power..

All of course are not called apostles, but all are called unto a good work , ordained for them to walk unto..as eph 2 explains:

Eph 2:8-10

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Paul as a member of the body had his ordained work, and all other members of the body, at their personal conversion have their ordained work..

So, to preach The Gospel of Gods Grace, the Fact that its Gods Sovereign Spiritual power, working effectually, its imperative 6
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Never

When are you going to provide evidence that unconditional election and reprobation is the gospel

and btw your quote

Titus 2:11

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

affirms an unlimited atonement

God's grace is extended to all men
Yes, I have provided evidence, and will continue to do so. I already made a comment about Titus 2 11 did you read it ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Another aspect of preaching Gods Grace

When Preaching the gospel of Gods grace, it must be made clear that it is Sovereign, in that it reigns as a King, this is clearly taught by paul here:

Rom 5:21

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might [for the purpose of] grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Again the word for reign is

basileuō which means:

to be king, to exercise kingly power, to reign
This means, that King Jesus is exercising His Kingly Power of His Grace in converting His elect..

remember what Jesus said to His sent preachers in Matt ? Matt 28:18

18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Jesus communicates His kingly Grace to the chosen members of His body for their spiritual conversion and wellbeing..
Jn 1:16

16And of his fulness have all we [the election of grace] received, and grace for grace.

We, the elect receive it in time, for it was given us in Him before Time began..2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Was given is a aorist past tense, and the time of the giving is clearly set forth as before the world began..

Now, this Grace, which is communicated by The risen Sovereign Lord, is communicated unto each member of His body He died for, this Grace is nothing Short of Gods Al Mighty Spiritual power.
.
This spiritual power reigns unto life, and it is effectual in its intentions Paul tells us Eph 3:7

7Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

This is true of all the saints of God, regarding our conversion experience, its by grace given [ by our Head] us by the effectual working of His Power..

All of course are not called apostles, but all are called unto a good work , ordained for them to walk unto..as eph 2 explains:

Eph 2:8-10

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Paul as a member of the body had his ordained work, and all other members of the body, at their personal conversion have their ordained work..

So, to preach The Gospel of Gods Grace, the Fact that its Gods Sovereign Spiritual power, working effectually, its imperative 6
His elect are

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

are those who trust in Christ, that is those who are in Christ

Christ is the elect and men are elect only in association with him

There is no election apart from Christ
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
His elect are

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

are those who trust in Christ, that is those who are in Christ

Christ is the elect and men are elect only in association with him

There is no election apart from Christ
Post 44 did you read it at all ? I made some very important points about grace and it appears you ignored them ! Of course you are famous for that !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Post 44 did you read it at all ? I made some very important points about grace and it appears you ignored them ! Of course you are famous for that !
Instead of running away Did you deal with this

His elect are

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

are those who trust in Christ, that is those who are in Christ

Christ is the elect and men are elect only in association with him

There is no election apart from Christ

You are famous for avoiding all rebuttal and just pointing back to theology you already posted

Your post however did not address what I posted above
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Instead of running away Did you deal with this

His elect are

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

are those who trust in Christ, that is those who are in Christ

Christ is the elect and men are elect only in association with him

There is no election apart from Christ

You are famous for avoiding all rebuttal and just pointing back to theology you already posted

Your post however did not address what I posted above
I see you are set on ignoring, thats cool !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I see you are set on ignoring, thats cool !
I see you are set on avoidance at all cost and address nothing

His elect are

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

are those who trust in Christ, that is those who are in Christ

Christ is the elect and men are elect only in association with him

There is no election apart from Christ

You are famous for avoiding all rebuttal and just pointing back to theology you already posted

Your post however did not address what I posted above
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
I see you are set on avoidance at all cost and address nothing

His elect are

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

are those who trust in Christ, that is those who are in Christ

Christ is the elect and men are elect only in association with him

There is no election apart from Christ

You are famous for avoiding all rebuttal and just pointing back to theology you already posted

Your post however did not address what I posted above
I see you are still evading and rabbit trailing away from post points
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I see you are still evading and rabbit trailing away from post points
You have yet to address a single rebuttal to your claims

why should this be any different

I see you are set on avoidance at all cost and address nothing

His elect are

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

are those who trust in Christ, that is those who are in Christ

Christ is the elect and men are elect only in association with him

There is no election apart from Christ

You are famous for avoiding all rebuttal and just pointing back to theology you already posted

Your post however did not address what I posted above
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You have yet to address a single rebuttal to your claims

why should this be any different

I see you are set on avoidance at all cost and address nothing

His elect are

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

are those who trust in Christ, that is those who are in Christ

Christ is the elect and men are elect only in association with him

There is no election apart from Christ

You are famous for avoiding all rebuttal and just pointing back to theology you already posted

Your post however did not address what I posted above
When are you going to quit evading the post points ?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
When are you going to quit evading the post points ?
When are you ever going to address rebuttal

His elect are

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

are those who trust in Christ, that is those who are in Christ

Christ is the elect and men are elect only in association with him

There is no election apart from Christ

You are famous for avoiding all rebuttal and just pointing back to theology you already posted

Your post however did not address what I posted above
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Eternal Union a Gospel Truth

Eternal Union a Gospel Truth

Paul says, I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God, to everyone believing..

Its the Truth that the natural man cannot recieve the things of God because they are spiritually discerned, meaning one must be born of the Spirit in order to be spiritually capacitated to recieve Gospel Truth, and one of the most neglected Truthes of the Gospel is that of the elect of God, sustaining a eternal union, with Jesus christ, their head, before the world began..Eph 1:4-6

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is indicative of this gospel fact, the key phrase being in him. You see Jesus christ was chosen as per 1 Pet 2:4,6

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect [or chosen], precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

And consequently, those whom Peter was writing are also called elect 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

That word generation is important here for its the greek word:

genos which means:

kindred

a) offspring
b) family

Peter calls them a chosen offspring, or seed..

This confirms the point I am making, that is, as Jesus Christ is chosen, His seed, offspring, generation in him is also chosen..

So peter calls them a chosen generation this could not be if they were not in eternal union with Their Head, Jesus Christ..

Yes, the elect [generation] was chosen at the same date as Christ was, before the world began..Thats why Jesus says:

Jn 17:23,24


23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

If God Loved Jesus Christ [ His elect] before the foundation of the world vs 24 Then likewise did He Love his seed the same vs 23..

Jesus at this early date was The Head of the body per Col 1:17-18

17And he [ Jesus Christ] is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And [At the same time] he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

We see here that He [ Jesus Christ] is before All things, and this while being the head of the church, his body or seed or generation.. And as such He is

#1. The beginning #2. The Firstborn from the dead [ of his church] and 3. He has the preeminence in all things..

This is special, because scripture says He is the beginning as the head of his church body, this means that his church was with him in the beginning Jn 1:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And to confirm that these things are gospel truths in Col 1, we need to look no further than Col 1 23

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

beginning from vs 12-22 is nothing short of the recap of the gospel that had been preached to them aforetime..

12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
7
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Eternal Union a Gospel Truth

Eternal Union a Gospel Truth

Paul says, I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God, to everyone believing..

Its the Truth that the natural man cannot recieve the things of God because they are spiritually discerned, meaning one must be born of the Spirit in order to be spiritually capacitated to recieve Gospel Truth, and one of the most neglected Truthes of the Gospel is that of the elect of God, sustaining a eternal union, with Jesus christ, their head, before the world began..Eph 1:4-6

4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is indicative of this gospel fact, the key phrase being in him. You see Jesus christ was chosen as per 1 Pet 2:4,6

4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect [or chosen], precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

And consequently, those whom Peter was writing are also called elect 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

That word generation is important here for its the greek word:

genos which means:

kindred

a) offspring
b) family

Peter calls them a chosen offspring, or seed..

This confirms the point I am making, that is, as Jesus Christ is chosen, His seed, offspring, generation in him is also chosen..

So peter calls them a chosen generation this could not be if they were not in eternal union with Their Head, Jesus Christ..

Yes, the elect [generation] was chosen at the same date as Christ was, before the world began..Thats why Jesus says:

Jn 17:23,24


23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

If God Loved Jesus Christ [ His elect] before the foundation of the world vs 24 Then likewise did He Love his seed the same vs 23..

Jesus at this early date was The Head of the body per Col 1:17-18

17And he [ Jesus Christ] is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And [At the same time] he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

We see here that He [ Jesus Christ] is before All things, and this while being the head of the church, his body or seed or generation.. And as such He is

#1. The beginning #2. The Firstborn from the dead [ of his church] and 3. He has the preeminence in all things..

This is special, because scripture says He is the beginning as the head of his church body, this means that his church was with him in the beginning Jn 1:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And to confirm that these things are gospel truths in Col 1, we need to look no further than Col 1 23

23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

beginning from vs 12-22 is nothing short of the recap of the gospel that had been preached to them aforetime..

12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
7
Still ignores the fact

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

Men are chosen in Christ when they believe
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Still ignores the fact

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

Men are chosen in Christ when they believe

Where does the Bible say "man are chosen in Christ when they believe"?

I ask, because your proof-text DOESN'T have the word "chosen" in it?

However, if you go back a few verses, you will find the correct answer to your question:

Eph. 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Where does the Bible say "man are chosen in Christ when they believe"?

I ask, because your proof-text DOESN'T have the word "chosen" in it?

However, if you go back a few verses, you will find the correct answer to your question:

Eph. 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Right in the verse posted

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

men are sealed in him they believe

BTW the verse you quote speaks of the corporate selection of the faithful in Christ

Individual men are not the faithful in Christ before they believe
 
Last edited:

Theo1689

Well-known member
Right in the verse posted

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

men are sealed in him they believe

BTW the verse you quote speaks of the corporate selection of the faithful in Christ

Individual men are not the faithful in Christ before they believe

It says nothing about "corporate selection".
 

TomFL

Well-known member
It says nothing about "corporate selection".
Men who do not yet exist are not in Christ

God determined the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him in Love

It is when they believe that men are found in Christ not before

An unbeliever can certainly not be called faithful in Christ
 
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