Predestination

Dizerner

Well-known member
I told you I am undecided why are you making things up about me that are not true ?

I believe you, Johnny.

It honestly looks like he's just phoning it in at this point. I've literally never heard anyone in my whole life say Jesus is not a mediator anymore.

I have no bad feelings for the guy, but anyone who completely ignores the people putting the most actual work into a discussion, it's very hard to believe they are really after honest dialogue.

He keeps spamming a point that sometime he heard that in some lexicon somewhere that mediators are only one-time court appointees, then never makes the slightest effort to back it up with any references, but expects this point to just be absolutely overwhelmingly convincing to us and we are somehow fighting truth itself.

Whereas someone actually lists a lot of instances the actual Greek word was actually used, and it's completely ignored and we are told we are making up ideas out of thin air.

Does that seem honest to... anyone?!
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Yes I’m wondering how a person can read and study that passage and come up with the opposite conclusion .

You are fast becoming a real joy. I'm upfront about being a Calvinist, but if you decide the Bible teaches a different point of view, you will be just as saved.

I've been on both sides. There are others here who have also been in both camps.

This is one of the most important things.

Hebrews 12:1-2

New American Standard Bible 1995

12 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

It's always about Jesus.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
He will not answer you it means the following.

The verb in Hebrews 8:6 is estin which is a present active indicative. That means He is still now( in the present) our Mediator, not was as in past tense our mediator as he believes.

Present Tense
The present tense usually denotes continuous kind of action. It shows 'action in progress' or 'a state of persistence.' When used in the indicative mood, the present tense denotes action taking place or going on in the present time.

God is Love- According to seths logic God is no longer love since the present tense verb is doesn't mean God is still love. His being love is over just like Jesus as mediator is over.

Another, cogent, concise and completely biblical response.

Thanks civic, for taking the time and care to properly exegete scripture.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
I believe you, Johnny.

It honestly looks like he's just phoning it in at this point. I've literally never heard anyone in my whole life say Jesus is not a mediator anymore.

I have no bad feelings for the guy, but anyone who completely ignores the people putting the most actual work into a discussion, it's very hard to believe they are really after honest dialogue.

He keeps spamming a point that sometime he heard that in some lexicon somewhere that mediators are only one-time court appointees, then never makes the slightest effort to back it up with any references, but expects this point to just be absolutely overwhelmingly convincing to us and we are somehow fighting truth itself.

Whereas someone actually lists a lot of instances the actual Greek word was actually used, and it's completely ignored and we are told we are making up ideas out of thin air.some place in the New testament where the Greek word is used and it does not mean

Does that seem honest to... anyone?!
When you look up a word in a lexicon and you get the meaning, what more can you do than that as far as the definition? It is what it is. I did not make it up. It is available for anyone to read. But when posters do not want to accept what an authoritative lexicon says, you end up repeating yourself. So no, it was not that sometime i heard in some lexicon somewhere... That is the kind of rude comments I get all the time. I read it in a respected lexicon. Period.
You are writing as if you know some place in the New testament where the word is used and it refers to something other than a court mediator as a symbolic reference. What scripture are you referring to? There are exactly 6 times the word is used in the New Testament. which of those are you suggesting are referencing something other than a court mediator as a symbol of what Christ did?

And as far as not being a mediator anymore? Why would we want that? A mediator helps two people (humans and God) come to an agreement about a covenant between them. Would you like to renegotiate the New Covenant? Or are you doing as others have done and confusing mediator with other of Christ's offices, like intercessor and high priest. Each office is unique and has a purpose. Are you wanting to do as others do and blend them all together?
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
You are fast becoming a real joy. I'm upfront about being a Calvinist, but if you decide the Bible teaches a different point of view, you will be just as saved.

I've been on both sides. There are others here who have also been in both camps.

This is one of the most important things.

Hebrews 12:1-2​

New American Standard Bible 1995​

12 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

It's always about Jesus.
Thank you
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
You are fast becoming a real joy. I'm upfront about being a Calvinist, but if you decide the Bible teaches a different point of view, you will be just as saved.

I've been on both sides. There are others here who have also been in both camps.

This is one of the most important things.

Hebrews 12:1-2​

New American Standard Bible 1995​

12 Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

It's always about Jesus.
Here, here!!!!
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
ok, Johnny.
Well if you ever decide to have a straightforward chat, then i am always open to discuss scripture back and forth
Till then may God bless you
Another poster brought up this verse can you tell me your view ?

In 1 John 4:7 is says that God is love.

Does that mean He is still love or no longer love and can you explain why . Thank you @Sethproton.
 
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SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Another poster brought up this verse can you tell me your view ?

In 1 John 4:7 is says that God is love.

Does that mean He is still love or no longer love and can you explain why . Thank you sethproton.
I don’t know if you know this, but if you put an @ right next to their username(no space in between) it tags them and gives them an alert.
@ Johnnybgood = no tag.
@Johnnybgood (I had no space between) = tag.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
And as far as not being a mediator anymore? Why would we want that? A mediator helps two people (humans and God) come to an agreement about a covenant between them. Would you like to renegotiate the New Covenant?

Here is the proof that you don't engage in proper hermeneutics.
You don't care what the text ACTUALLY says.

You only want to find what you "would want".
Your theology is based one rationalization like the above, not on the testimony of Scripture.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Another poster brought up this verse can you tell me your view ?

In 1 John 4:7 is says that God is love.

Does that mean He is still love or no longer love and can you explain why . Thank you @Sethproton.
Yes, God is love. Something we all know but can continue to learn the depths of it.
The statement is not meant to be present tense statement. It is an equality. It is not JUST currently true. It is true timelessly.
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Here is the proof that you don't engage in proper hermeneutics.
You don't care what the text ACTUALLY says.

You only want to find what you "would want".
Your theology is based one rationalization like the above, not on the testimony of Scripture.
ok
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Yes, God is love. Something we all know but can continue to learn the depths of it.
The statement is not meant to be present tense statement. It is an equality. It is not JUST currently true. It is true timelessly.
That is great and I agree it’s timeless and God is now love just as He was when the verse was written.

My question is this since Hebrews 8:6 used the exact same verb estin that says Jesus is our mediator why is God still love and Jesus is still not our mediator . This is my question .
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
That is great and I agree it’s timeless and God is now love just as He was when the verse was written.

My question is this since Hebrews 8:6 used the exact same verb estin that says Jesus is our mediator why is God still love and Jesus is still not our mediator . This is my question .
here is the idea that makes sense based on the various verses, Just as God is love and always will be. When the Bible says God is love, it is an equality, not just something about what He currently does. If that was just meant to say that now, at this moment God is love, it would not express the truth as we understand it, if it just meant that at this time He is love. So the same for being mediator. Saying He is the mediator is not meant as something just in the present. While it is something He has done/acted on. It is more something He is.
The other part of that which no one seems to grasp is what the word "mediator" means. The court person who reconciles the plaintiff and defendant, or both civil parties, so they can approach the judge with an agreement. And from there what it means that He was a mediator using His own blood, and this He did once for all time. Christ only shed His blood once, it is not an ongoing sacrifice that He keeps making. With that one time sacrifice, the Bible says he mediated the new covenant once. There is no need to keep creating the covenant, it is in place.
Can you understand that? The need for a new covenant in His blood, which is now an eternal covenant between man and God mediated once in his blood?
some have confused the word mediator with intercessor or high priest. Now these two jesus does eternally. But these two are different offices

Please ask for clarification, or scripture if you wonder about anything specific
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
here is the idea that makes sense based on the various verses, Just as God is love and always will be. When the Bible says God is love, it is an equality, not just something about what He currently does. If that was just meant to say that now, at this moment God is love, it would not express the truth as we understand it, if it just meant that at this time He is love. So the same for being mediator. Saying He is the mediator is not meant as something just in the present. While it is something He has done/acted on. It is more something He is.
The other part of that which no one seems to grasp is what the word "mediator" means. The court person who reconciles the plaintiff and defendant, or both civil parties, so they can approach the judge with an agreement. And from there what it means that He was a mediator using His own blood, and this He did once for all time. Christ only shed His blood once, it is not an ongoing sacrifice that He keeps making. With that one time sacrifice, the Bible says he mediated the new covenant once. There is no need to keep creating the covenant, it is in place.
Can you understand that? The need for a new covenant in His blood, which is now an eternal covenant between man and God mediated once in his blood?
some have confused the word mediator with intercessor or high priest. Now these two jesus does eternally. But these two are different offices

Please ask for clarification, or scripture if you wonder about anything specific
So here is what I’m having a hard time understanding. If mediator is passed because his sacrifice for sin is past then his role as priest would be over because of the same sacrifice in the past was a one time for all sacrifice. Do you see that as the same idea ?
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
So here is what I’m having a hard time understanding. If mediator is passed because his sacrifice for sin is past then his role as priest would be over because of the same sacrifice in the past was a one time for all sacrifice. Do you see that as the same idea ?
The Bible specifically states that Jesus is a high priest forever and that He lives forever to make intercession.
The Bible does not state that He will forever die for us. He died once. And in that death, He mediated the new covenant,
Can you answer one question? Do you want Jesus to re-mediate the new covenant and create a new set of rules for the covenant
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
The Bible specifically states that Jesus is a high priest forever and that He lives forever to make intercession.
The Bible does not state that He will forever die for us. He died once. And in that death, He mediated the new covenant,
Can you answer one question? Do you want Jesus to re-mediate the new covenant and create a new set of rules for the covenant
Why would I still need a priest if my past , present and future sins have been forgiven ? I don’t see any difference between them as a priest and mediator both work on behalf of the sinner to God. I believe both are necessary or both are not. I’m not seeing how we can split them up it doesn’t make any sense to me. I’m having trouble wrapping my head around that concept .
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
The Bible specifically states that Jesus is a high priest forever and that He lives forever to make intercession.
The Bible does not state that He will forever die for us. He died once. And in that death, He mediated the new covenant,
Can you answer one question? Do you want Jesus to re-mediate the new covenant and create a new set of rules for the covenant

First of all, why does what anyone "wants" relevant to ANYTHING?
Basing your beliefs on what you "want", rather than what the Bible TEACHES, is a one-way path to heresy.

And you don't seem to understand the difference between "continues to mediate" and "mediates again" (ie. iterative).

And NOBODY said anything about "a new set of rules".
You're talking nonsense.
 
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