Predestination

Sethproton

Well-known member
I might not know as much as many here on the forum but I do know a few things such as Jesus is not was our mediator and that Jesus is still a human being. I learned that when I first believed or shortly after.
We are all learning. Sometimes we are taught wrong and as we study we realize it. So did you get to the post you asked me to write to you about the grammar in Heb 8:6?
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
There are some things I am open to which is why I am on this forum with both Arminians and Calvinists and others such as Jesus not being a human or our mediator , priest and king all offices the book of Hebrews say are still active that I’m not open to changing my mind on. That might give people here some insight about what I believe or do not believe . The book of Hebrews has been my favorite book when I was first a Christian and is still my favorite . I’m more familiar with that book than all the others in the Bible . I still have allot to learn about it but for me it gives me so much insight into the Old Testament and how Jesus fulfills it all and how it glorifies and exalts Him above all in every chapter .
 
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Johnnybgood

Well-known member
That is great and I agree it’s timeless and God is now love just as He was when the verse was written.

My question is this since Hebrews 8:6 used the exact same verb estin that says Jesus is our mediator why is God still love and Jesus is still not our mediator . This is my question .
@Sethproton i asked you the same question in this thread specifically about Heb 8:6 in this thread
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
It looks like the hot topic is Jesus really our mediator now or is that something that is now past. I’m tired of reading about 1 Tim 2:5 so can you explain this passage from Hebrews .

Hebrews 8:6
But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, to the extent that He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
@Sethproton here is another one where I keep asking you specifically about Heb 8:6 and said I’m tired or reading about 1 Tim 2:5.

So you are incorrect as I have been consistent in asking you about Heb 8:6 not 1 Tim 2:5. You must have me confused with someone else
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Posted a question about 1 Tim. 2:5 in the language forum:

 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Posted a question about 1 Tim. 2:5 in the language forum:

Why did you ask about a past tense? Neither I nor anyone is claiming it should be understood as past tense.
But I am interested to see the discussion, thanks for the heads up
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
Posted a question about 1 Tim. 2:5 in the language forum:

Thanks again. I went over and asked him further questions, hopefully he answers
 

Sethproton

Well-known member
You claimed it was past in 1 Tim 2:5. Are you now denying you said that ?
Of course I deny that, I never said the passage could be translated as past tense. Never. You are confused
If you think I am mistaken, then tell which post I said it could be translated as past tense
To the contrary I have stated about 5 times in this chat that it appears to me the present tense translations are correct
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
What is predestination ?

It is God’s predetermining all reasonable beings, whether angels or men, to an everlasting domain either of salvation or damnation. 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

So predestination is comprised of two aspects:

Election, which is God’s sovereign choosing some men to salvation through Christ. “And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.” {Rom 9:23} “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.” {Eph1:5}

Reprobation, which is God’s sovereign choosing some, both men and Angels, to destruction. There are some vessels “to dishonor.” {2 Tim 2:20} “To shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.” {Rom 9:22}
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
We are all learning. Sometimes we are taught wrong and as we study we realize it. So did you get to the post you asked me to write to you about the grammar in Heb 8:6?
Maybe you could break down Hebrews 8:6 and show us why He is nor our mediator now by exegeting that passage.
 

Predestined

Well-known member
Welcome to CARM.

I've read your post twice now. Especially this quote: "Predestination = Reap what One has sown previously."

My Bible says that I was predestined before the foundation of the world. It also says our salvation is not dependent on my works.

John 6:37-39English Standard Version (ESV)


37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

John 6:44English Standard Version (ESV)

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.



Romans 9:14-24English Standard Version (ESV)

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[a] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?



Ephesians 1:3-11English Standard Version (ESV)

Spiritual Blessings in Christ


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us[a] for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[b] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,



Romans 8:28-30English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.



Ephesians 2:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.



Acts 13:48English Standard Version (ESV)

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.



Colossians 2:13English Standard Version (ESV)

13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,



Titus 3:5English Standard Version (ESV)

5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,



1 Peter 1:3English Standard Version (ESV)

Born Again to a Living Hope


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,



2 Timothy 2:25English Standard Version (ESV)

25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,



Ezekiel 36:25-26English Standard Version (ESV)

25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleanliness, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.



Deuteronomy 30:6English Standard Version (ESV)

6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.



Just another thought, when you post something at CARM, you should lose the insults, sarcasm, and especially name-calling. It won't serve you well, you could get banned or you could just lose credibility.

If you are here just to post divisive material, well... that won't serve you well, either.

If you want to discuss theological matters with other Christians (without rancor) then you are in the right place.
Sounds good to me!
 

Predestined

Well-known member
Well I'm glad you are open to learning that is a breath of fresh air on this forum as most are only interested in convincing others their " ideas" are biblical without Scripture to back them up with proper hermeneutics and exegesis. I can recommend a book that was very helpful for me in this area its called " How to read the bible for all its worth " by Fee & Stewart. I studied it in a small mens discipleship group in the 80's.

hope this helps !!!
Open to learning sounds good to me! I just happen to have:
How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth Copyright © 1981, 1993, 2003 by Douglas Stuart and Gordon D, Fee Requests for information should be addressed to—Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Michigan 49530

Looking at it now. Here is a c/p from chapter 1
Learning to Do Exegesis How, then, do we learn to do good exegesis and at the same time avoid the pitfalls along the way? The first part of most of the chapters in this book will explain how one goes about this task for each of the genres in particular. Here we simply want to overview what is involved in the exegesis of any text.
 

Chalcedon

Well-known member
Open to learning sounds good to me! I just happen to have:
How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth Copyright © 1981, 1993, 2003 by Douglas Stuart and Gordon D, Fee Requests for information should be addressed to—Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Michigan 49530

Looking at it now. Here is a c/p from chapter 1
Learning to Do Exegesis How, then, do we learn to do good exegesis and at the same time avoid the pitfalls along the way? The first part of most of the chapters in this book will explain how one goes about this task for each of the genres in particular. Here we simply want to overview what is involved in the exegesis of any text.
Excellent book . I went through it in a Mens discipleship group in the 80’s.
 
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