Predestination

GeneZ

Well-known member
Every Christian must believe in predestination in one way or another. We can't escape the fact that it is in scripture. Just a few verses.
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. John 15:16.

4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, 1 Thess 1.

12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, Col 3.

1 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness, Titus 1.

3 Quotes,
“I believe that nothing happens apart from divine determination and decree. We shall never be able to escape from the doctrine of divine predestination – the doctrine that God has foreordained certain people unto eternal life.” Charles Spurgeon

“God preordained, for His own glory and the display of His attributes of mercy and justice, a part of the human race, without any merit of their own, to eternal salvation, and another part, in just punishment of their sin, to eternal damnation.” John Calvin

“We talk about predestination because the Bible talks about predestination. If we desire to build our theology on the Bible, we run head on into this concept. We soon discover that John Calvin did not invent it.” – RC Sproul

And of course the passage many try to distort.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: “About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” Romans 9.

Does this teach a double predestination?

God could have "chosen" you to be born during the time of the Exodus.. Knowing you that you would choose to believe at some time after you were born. Now, if that were the case? Would you have been chosen for the same purpose, if God had ordained that you be born to the family of Noah?

What some keep failing to realize, is that those who God chose to be born in the Church age, have been chosen with a different purpose in God's mind than if He ordained you to be born in another dispensational time in history.

He did not choose to make us believe. What He did... He chose for what dispensation we would be born and live in. To live in our salvation according to His chosen purpose. A purpose we will be born-gain into, for the age he predestined us for.

Before the foundations of the earth God chose us in Christ. Right? Now...

Where was Adam's bride when Adam came from the hand of God?

She was hidden "in" Adam. Not yet revealed.

We are now what? Hidden in Christ! For we will be His Bride to be revealed at the Resurrection!

That is what we have been predestined for!

Chosen in Christ for a phenomenal eternal purpose that others who believe in other dispensations will never have.

We need to learn to think better.
 
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Sethproton

Well-known member
God could have "chosen" you to be born during the time of the Exodus.. Knowing you that you would choose to believe at some time after you were born. Now, if that were the case? Would you have been chosen for the same purpose, if God had ordained that you be born to the family of Noah?

What some keep failing to realize, is that those who God chose to be born in the Church age, have been chosen with a different purpose in God's mind than if He ordained you to be born in another dispensational time in history.

He did not choose to make us believe. What He did... He chose for what dispensation we would be born and live in. To live in our salvation according to His chosen purpose. A purpose we will be born-gain into, for the age he predestined us for.

Before the foundations of the earth God chose us in Christ. Right? Now...

Where was Adam's bride when Adam came from the hand of God?

She was hidden "in" Adam. Not yet revealed.

We are now what? Hidden in Christ! For we will be His Bride to be revealed at the Resurrection!

That is what we have been predestined for!

Chosen in Christ for a phenomenal eternal purpose that others who believe in other dispensations will never have.

We need to learn to think better.
I liked the idea that Eve was hidden in Adam
It gives me something to search out
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Seems your dancing around my question. So, ill be more specific.

How do you believe He did it?

By causing the reprobate to sin, removing His sustaining grace, or another way?

If you don't know, just say you don't know.

If you don't want to answer, say so.


You've asked me questions, and I answered.
He did it by His Power !
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Curious, would you explain your understanding on double predestination? Thanks.
Please allow me to interject. As Dr. Sproul said, double predestination in reformed circles a positive-negative. On the positive side is God electing the elect(I know a double saying there) and the negative being Him justly leaving the non-elect in their sins. The hyper-Calvinists teach that God actively pours evil into their heart, thereby assuring their reprobation. That is called positive-positive.

I‘m in the positive-negative double predestination camp. It’s called asymmetry iirc.
 

civic

Well-known member
God could have "chosen" you to be born during the time of the Exodus.. Knowing you that you would choose to believe at some time after you were born. Now, if that were the case? Would you have been chosen for the same purpose, if God had ordained that you be born to the family of Noah?

What some keep failing to realize, is that those who God chose to be born in the Church age, have been chosen with a different purpose in God's mind than if He ordained you to be born in another dispensational time in history.

He did not choose to make us believe. What He did... He chose for what dispensation we would be born and live in. To live in our salvation according to His chosen purpose. A purpose we will be born-gain into, for the age he predestined us for.

Before the foundations of the earth God chose us in Christ. Right? Now...

Where was Adam's bride when Adam came from the hand of God?

She was hidden "in" Adam. Not yet revealed.

We are now what? Hidden in Christ! For we will be His Bride to be revealed at the Resurrection!

That is what we have been predestined for!

Chosen in Christ for a phenomenal eternal purpose that others who believe in other dispensations will never have.

We need to learn to think better.
Are you saying there is not a past, present and future aspect to being in Christ, to the church being Christs bride just like there is a past, present and future aspect to sanctification, salvation and eternal life ?

hope this helps !!!
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Are you saying there is not a past, present and future aspect to being in Christ, to the church being Christs bride just like there is a past, present and future aspect to sanctification, salvation and eternal life ?

hope this helps !!!
I have not looked at being in Christ having a past present future like the others you mentioned . It looks like I have more studying to do this weekend . Thanks for those concepts .
 

civic

Well-known member
I have not looked at being in Christ having a past present future like the others you mentioned . It looks like I have more studying to do this weekend . Thanks for those concepts .
Well I'm glad you are open to learning that is a breath of fresh air on this forum as most are only interested in convincing others their " ideas" are biblical without Scripture to back them up with proper hermeneutics and exegesis. I can recommend a book that was very helpful for me in this area its called " How to read the bible for all its worth " by Fee & Stewart. I studied it in a small mens discipleship group in the 80's.

hope this helps !!!
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Are you saying there is not a past, present and future aspect to being in Christ, to the church being Christs bride just like there is a past, present and future aspect to sanctification, salvation and eternal life ?

hope this helps !!!

Where did you get that from what I said? Its like you had no idea what I was saying. And, now I can not understand what it was you think I said.

I covered past, present, and future .... But, not sure what you think it means. We were chosen in Christ before the foundations of the world by God's omniscience. I was not saying we preexisted. No more than the generation we read about in the Tribulation existed when John penned Revelation. God's omniscience sees the future as if it were past and present as well.
 

civic

Well-known member
Where did you get that from what I said? Its like you had no idea what I was saying. And, now I can not understand what it was you think I said.

I covered past, present, and future ....
ok my mistake I for some reason did not get that from your post but thanks for clarifying it GeneZ.
 

eternomade

Well-known member
The hyper-Calvinists teach that God actively pours evil into their heart, thereby assuring their reprobation. That is called positive-positive.
Where do you see the different "levels" of Calvinism defined? Or maybe Sproul thought this? I thought hyper was designated for those who dont share the gospel. I would consider what you described as "high Calvinism".
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Well I'm glad you are open to learning that is a breath of fresh air on this forum as most are only interested in convincing others their " ideas" are biblical without Scripture to back them up with proper hermeneutics and exegesis. I can recommend a book that was very helpful for me in this area its called " How to read the bible for all its worth " by Fee & Stewart. I studied it in a small mens discipleship group in the 80's.

hope this helps !!!
I will see if I can order that book online. Thank you for the recommendation civic.
 

civic

Well-known member
I will see if I can order that book online. Thank you for the recommendation civic.
Amazon has it for 11.99

 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Amazon has it for 11.99

I just ordered a copy
 
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