Preterism and the People of God

Iconoclast

Active member
Ancient peoples used sackcloth, and some still do today, to view solar eclipses. The sky will become so smoky/dusty that people will be able to view the sun with the unshielded eye, much as we can now, thru fog.

The falling stars will be meteors. And I explained about the heavens earlier.
You are just making up stories with no biblical support.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
You are just making up stories with no biblical support.
How silly. There's PLENTYA Scriptural support. If the sun REALLY became that dim, not just obscured, we'd freeze to death some 8 minutes after it occurred. And do stars REALLY fall? "Falling star" has been a term for a meteor since time immemorial. you just don't like those facts since they clash with your pret jive.
 

Iconoclast

Active member
How silly. There's PLENTYA Scriptural support. If the sun REALLY became that dim, not just obscured, we'd freeze to death some 8 minutes after it occurred. And do stars REALLY fall? "Falling star" has been a term for a meteor since time immemorial. you just don't like those facts since they clash with your pret jive.
Mens heart failing them with fear....is not because of a meteor shower..lol
You ignore the scriptural data and offer uncle roby's storytelling .
Sackcloth covering peoples eyes eyes during an eclipse. 🤣😒🤭😟🥺
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Mens heart failing them with fear....is not because of a meteor shower..lol
You ignore the scriptural data and offer uncle roby's storytelling .
Sackcloth covering peoples eyes eyes during an eclipse. 🤣😒🤭😟🥺
Mens' hearts will fail from fear FOR THE THINGS THEY SEE COMING ON THE EARTH. You ignored that part of the Scripture, which prets are apt to do with any verses that clash with their false doctrine.(Mens' hearts will fail because of the CAUSE of those phenomena.) And you don't know history too well. It's easy to find on the internet that ancient people viewed solar eclipses thru sackcloth. One CAN view the sun safely thru sackcloth, the number of layers used depending on the type of cloth.
 

Iconoclast

Active member
Mens' hearts will fail from fear FOR THE THINGS THEY SEE COMING ON THE EARTH. You ignored that part of the Scripture, which prets are apt to do with any verses that clash with their false doctrine.(Mens' hearts will fail because of the CAUSE of those phenomena.) And you don't know history too well. It's easy to find on the internet that ancient people viewed solar eclipses thru sackcloth. One CAN view the sun safely thru sackcloth, the number of layers used depending on the type of cloth.
So now not only do you ignore the biblical data but you suggest that current people living in our day I'm going to go out and buy pieces of sack cloth to look at some mysterious eclipse? What are you even talking about this is this is borderline retarded.
Have fun searching for the red heifer and looking for an antichrist and looking for a rebuilt Temple and all the things that have taken place yeah you go ahead and have fun with that
 

robycop3

Well-known member
So now not only do you ignore the biblical data but you suggest that current people living in our day I'm going to go out and buy pieces of sack cloth to look at some mysterious eclipse?
You may view an eclipse of you wish by any manner you choose.

What are you even talking about this is this is borderline retarded.
Apparently you haven't read a Bible closely, or you're using the King George version.

Have fun searching for the red heifer and looking for an antichrist and looking for a rebuilt Temple and all the things that have taken place yeah you go ahead and have fun with that
Apparently you not only don't know history, but you don't know current events too well, either. When was the temple rebuilt after 70 AD? And the Jews ARE breeding red heifers, among other animals, to be used in temple rites. I DARE you to Google "jews breeding red heifers for temple rites" & read any number of articles that appear.
 

Iconoclast

Active member
You may view an eclipse of you wish by any manner you choose.


Apparently you haven't read a Bible closely, or you're using the King George version.


Apparently you not only don't know history, but you don't know current events too well, either. When was the temple rebuilt after 70 AD? And the Jews ARE breeding red heifers, among other animals, to be used in temple rites. I DARE you to Google "jews breeding red heifers for temple rites" & read any number of articles that appear.
Roby,
The Church is the rebuilt temple 1 cor3....1 pet2....eph1-3.
Who cares what unsaved Jews are doing? Those sacrifices would have no meaning since the cross
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Roby,
The Church is the rebuilt temple 1 cor3....1 pet2....eph1-3.
No, an edifice must be built for the abomination of desolation to occur in.
Who cares what unsaved Jews are doing? Those sacrifices would have no meaning since the cross
Scripture says the beast/antichrist will halt the sacrifices in the temple. Paul wrote in 2 Thess.2 that the beast will sit in the temple & proclaim himself to be God. That hasn't yet happened, of course, since there's not yet a temple for it to occur in.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
No, an edifice must be built for the abomination of desolation to occur in.

Scripture says the beast/antichrist will halt the sacrifices in the temple. Paul wrote in 2 Thess.2 that the beast will sit in the temple & proclaim himself to be God. That hasn't yet happened, of course, since there's not yet a temple for it to occur in.
There was in the first century and the sacrifices were stopped
 

BlessedAnomaly

Well-known member
Hello BA,
check Gen 37...Joseph says the sun moon and stars will bow down to Him....
Your quote: "it says the STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN" So the sun, moon and stars are NOT heaven, they come from heaven. (Actually, they are in the heavens, which is different from heaven, the place of God's throne.)

So this does NOT show heaven being a government of man.

Joel 2 is quoted on the day of pentecost...vs 16...this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel
Yes, Peter quoted from Joel. NOTHING about heaven being a government of man.

mt24:29-31
Um, NOTHING about heaven being a government of man.

rev6;
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
And....NOTHING about heaven being a government of man.

All of these show that the signs presented come from the heavens.

I do see "kings of the earth" in verse 15, but they are cowering in fear, hiding in the caves and in the rocks. They certainly are not in any way defining heaven or ruling from/in heaven. They are cowards.

So you could have just said you have NOTHING to show heaven being a government of man.
 

Iconoclast

Active member
Your quote: "it says the STARS SHALL FALL FROM HEAVEN" So the sun, moon and stars are NOT heaven, they come from heaven. (Actually, they are in the heavens, which is different from heaven, the place of God's throne.)

So this does NOT show heaven being a government of man.


Yes, Peter quoted from Joel. NOTHING about heaven being a government of man.


Um, NOTHING about heaven being a government of man.


And....NOTHING about heaven being a government of man.

All of these show that the signs presented come from the heavens.

I do see "kings of the earth" in verse 15, but they are cowering in fear, hiding in the caves and in the rocks. They certainly are not in any way defining heaven or ruling from/in heaven. They are cowards.

So you could have just said you have NOTHING to show heaven being a government of man.
explain in what way did the literal sun, moon, and stars bow down to Joseph???

8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Hint...these are not the literal sun moon and stars.
 
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Reformedguy

Well-known member
explain in what way did the literal sun, moon, and stars bow down to Joseph???

8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Hint...these are not the literal sun moon and stars.
Good question
 

BlessedAnomaly

Well-known member
explain in what way did the literal sun, moon, and stars bow down to Joseph???
Did I say or imply that the literal sun, moon, and [eleven] stars bow[ed] down to Joseph? I did not.

Further, why are you tying the stars bowing to Joseph to the stars of the Revelation prophesy?
  • In Psalm 147:4 we are told God "counts the number of the stars;" Is he counting government rulers?
  • Gen 1:16 - "Then God mad two great lights....He made the stars also." Did he make the government rulers in Genesis' creation story?
  • 1 Chron 27:23 - "the Lord had said He would multiply Israel lie the stars of heaven." So the rulers outnumber the nation of Israel?
  • Rev 1:20 - "The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches." Governmental rulers? Not in the least. True angels? Or pastors over churches.
And five chapters after Rev 1 above, "And the stars of heaven fell to the earth." What fell? Stars (meteorites)? Angels? Pastors?

Does EVERY use of "stars" mean the same exact thing?

8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.

9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Hint...these are not the literal sun moon and stars.
So if we look through scripture, what do we find? Does Pharaoh ever bow to Joseph. He is the governmental leader. No, he never bows to Joseph. Do any of the other governmental rulers bow to Joseph? They are subservient to him after he is made second in charge of Egypt. But scripture never shows them bowing to Joseph.

What scripture does show, is Joseph's brothers and father bowing to Joseph; along with citizens of Egypt bowing before him as he rides the chariot. (Gen 41:43; Gen 42:6; Gen 43:26; Gen 43:28; Gen 44:14).

And once again we are back to your unproven and unjustified claim that the sun, moon and stars are the government of heaven.
 

Iconoclast

Active member
Did I say or imply that the literal sun, moon, and [eleven] stars bow[ed] down to Joseph? I did not.

Further, why are you tying the stars bowing to Joseph to the stars of the Revelation prophesy?
  • In Psalm 147:4 we are told God "counts the number of the stars;" Is he counting government rulers?
  • Gen 1:16 - "Then God mad two great lights....He made the stars also." Did he make the government rulers in Genesis' creation story?
  • 1 Chron 27:23 - "the Lord had said He would multiply Israel lie the stars of heaven." So the rulers outnumber the nation of Israel?
  • Rev 1:20 - "The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches." Governmental rulers? Not in the least. True angels? Or pastors over churches.
And five chapters after Rev 1 above, "And the stars of heaven fell to the earth." What fell? Stars (meteorites)? Angels? Pastors?

Does EVERY use of "stars" mean the same exact thing?


So if we look through scripture, what do we find? Does Pharaoh ever bow to Joseph. He is the governmental leader. No, he never bows to Joseph. Do any of the other governmental rulers bow to Joseph? They are subservient to him after he is made second in charge of Egypt. But scripture never shows them bowing to Joseph.

What scripture does show, is Joseph's brothers and father bowing to Joseph; along with citizens of Egypt bowing before him as he rides the chariot. (Gen 41:43; Gen 42:6; Gen 43:26; Gen 43:28; Gen 44:14).

And once again we are back to your unproven and unjustified claim that the sun, moon and stars are the government of heaven.
My friend, if you want to remain ignorant, be my guest. I gave you a list of the phrases that when all three are used, it spoke of a change of government administration, or from Ot. to NT.
You can just ignore the biblical data and be without a clue.
 

BlessedAnomaly

Well-known member
My friend, if you want to remain ignorant, be my guest. I gave you a list of the phrases that when all three are used, it spoke of a change of government administration, or from Ot. to NT.
You can just ignore the biblical data and be without a clue.
Wow, I'm in the company of such a superior mind.

You have taken your presupposition and read it into a number of verses that have little to nothing to do with one another. The stars in Joseph's vision have nothing to do with the stars falling from heaven in Revelation.

I'll try this one more time: What scripture does show, is Joseph's brothers and father bowing to Joseph; along with citizens of Egypt bowing before him as he rides the chariot. (Gen 41:43; Gen 42:6; Gen 43:26; Gen 43:28; Gen 44:14).

In other words, the sun, moon and stars in Joseph's vision is his family. Not governments, not rulers. Is it my arrogance that tells me so like some people? No. I read it in scripture (and listed it for you to read as well). But you go ahead and disregard what scripture SPECIFICALLY says about who bowed down to Joseph and be without a clue. Oh wait, I just gave you a clue and you disregarded it for your presuppositions. Good move.
 
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