Preterist Theology Is Inconsistent And Unbiblical

You just claimed that you never denied that Amos was referring to the salvation of the Gentiles.

But you did deny it. First I said,

Then you said,

You are just creating confusion here.

I am not denying anything I said, and I am not creating confusion

The Reformed position that gentiles becoming believers fulfills Amos 9 in the rebuilding of David's fallen tent, is what I flatly denied and still do, because that hasn't happened yet because Jesus hasn't returned


After Jesus returns, He will restore the Davidic Kingdom to Israel and this will then result in the salvation of a great number of gentiles as stated in Amos 9 and Acts 15 and Zechariah and the passage you quoted Isaiah 2


If you are heavily reformed in your eschatology, the James quote of Amos 9 in Acts 15 is going to force you to rethink your theology, because there will be literal fulfillment in the millennium


Something to think about, if there is no literal fulfillment when Jesus returns of the Davidic Kingdom to Israel in the Millennium, then there is no literal fulfillment of a great number of Gentiles coming to faith either



RCM
 
I am not denying anything I said, and I am not creating confusion

The Reformed position that gentiles becoming believers fulfills Amos 9 in the rebuilding of David's fallen tent, is what I flatly denied and still do, because that hasn't happened yet because Jesus hasn't returned
You flatly denied that Amos prophesies the salvation of the Gentiles.
 
You flatly denied that Amos prophesies the salvation of the Gentiles.

Amos 9:11 and Acts 15:16 is all about Jesus restoring the Davidic Kingdom to Israel at His second coming

Acts 15:16
16 'AFTER these things I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD the TABERNACLE of DAVID which has fallen, AND I WILL REBUILD its ruins, AND I WILL RESTORE it,

All four Greek verbs in this sentence are in the future tense, meaning they will only be fulfilled when Jesus returns


The context in James' quote of Amos 9 is that the Scriptures declare that Gentiles will come to faith in great numbers after the return of Jesus when He restores the Davidic Kingdom to Israel, and because of that fact, it is James decision that they are not to hinder or trouble the Gentiles that are turning to God in faith at the current time

Acts 15:19
19 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles,





Tell me when Zechariah 8:20-23 will be fulfilled?


Zechariah 8:20-23

20 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'It will yet be that peoples will come, even the inhabitants of many cities.
21 'The inhabitants of one will go to another, saying, "Let us go at once to entreat the favor of the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts; I will also go."
22 'So many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD.'
23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'"



RCM
 
Amos 9:11 and Acts 15:16 is all about Jesus restoring the Davidic Kingdom to Israel at His second coming

Acts 15:16
16 'AFTER these things I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD the TABERNACLE of DAVID which has fallen, AND I WILL REBUILD its ruins, AND I WILL RESTORE it,

All four Greek verbs in this sentence are in the future tense, meaning they will only be fulfilled when Jesus returns
It doesn't say that God will restore Israel. It says that he will restore the tabernacle of David. The tabernacle of David is not about Israel only. It is about all mankind. King David himself said so (2 Samuel 7:19).

Neither does it say that it is to be fulfilled at the second coming of Christ. The phrase "I will return and rebuild the tabernacle of David" is not a reference to what God will do at the second coming of Christ. "I will return" is a general reference to God visiting men in salvation. James in Acts 15 clearly said that Amos was talking about the salvation of Gentiles beginning with his own time.

And after they had ceased, James arose and he said, “Men, brothers, hear me.” Simeon has related to you how God began to choose from the Gentiles a people for his name. And the words of the prophets agree with this, just as it is written:”

Ok, so it is clear beyond all doubt that James said that God's choosing of Gentiles in his time was in agreement with the prophets "just as it is written." Then he goes on to quote Amos about the restoring of the tabernacle of David and the salvation of Gentiles. It is not postponed until the indefinite and nebulous future. It was going on then and is going on now.

I will give you one more chance to be honest about this, sir. If you persist in twisting the scriptures I will cease engaging with you.
 
It doesn't say that God will restore Israel. It says that he will restore the tabernacle of David. The tabernacle of David is not about Israel only. It is about all mankind. King David himself said so (2 Samuel 7:19).

Numerous Old Testament Scriptures foretell of the restoration of Israel

Especially Amos 9:14-15, which apparently you didn't read

Amos 9:14-15
14 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

The tabernacle of David is specifically about the Nation Israel

2 Samuel 7 is all about the fact that the tabernacle of David only exists in relation to the Nation Israel

David's kingdom reigned over Edom, but the House of David and the throne of David were specific to the Nation Israel

Neither does it say that it is to be fulfilled at the second coming of Christ. The phrase "I will return and rebuild the tabernacle of David" is not a reference to what God will do at the second coming of Christ. "I will return" is a general reference to God visiting men in salvation. James in Acts 15 clearly said that Amos was talking about the salvation of Gentiles beginning with his own time.

This is a flat out false statement

Amos states 'In That Day' which is a reference to the Day of the Lord

Amos 9:11
11 "In that day I will raise up the fallen booth of David, And wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;

When James quotes it, he states, 'After These Things I Will Return'

Acts 15:16
16 'AFTER these things I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD the TABERNACLE of DAVID which has fallen, AND I WILL REBUILD its ruins, AND I WILL RESTORE it,


This makes the Day of the Lord and the second coming of Jesus synonymous, especially when the four Greek verbs in Acts 15:16 are in the future tense!

You are completely unable to analyze and interpret the grammatical structure or you are completely ignoring it

Ok, so it is clear beyond all doubt that James said that God's choosing of Gentiles in his time was in agreement with the prophets "just as it is written." Then he goes on to quote Amos about the restoring of the tabernacle of David and the salvation of Gentiles. It is not postponed until the indefinite and nebulous future. It was going on then and is going on now.

You are completely unable to evaluate the context of Acts 15

James is saying because there is testimony that the Gentiles are turning to faith in God, and because the Scriptures declare that when the Kingdom is restored to Israel, Gentiles will come to faith in God by the multitudes, that we should not hinder those who are turning now

Zechariah 8:20-23
20 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'It will yet be that peoples will come, even the inhabitants of many cities.
21 'The inhabitants of one will go to another, saying, "Let us go at once to entreat the favor of the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts; I will also go."
22 'So many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD.'
23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'"

I will give you one more chance to be honest about this, sir. If you persist in twisting the scriptures I will cease engaging with you.

You are the one who is misrepresenting Scripture

You have cannot deal with the fact that Amos 9 and Acts 15 are foretelling the restoration of the Davidic Kingdom to the Nation Israel at the Return of Jesus Christ

You cannot deal with the fact that the four Greek verbs in Acts 15:16 are all in the future tense

You have completely been unable to explain when Zechariah 8:20-23 is to be fulfilled, which is when the Davidic Kingdom will again reign over the area of Edom

You go ahead and persist in your replacement theology, but it is unbiblical and heresy



RCM
 
It doesn't say that God will restore Israel. It says that he will restore the tabernacle of David. The tabernacle of David is not about Israel only. It is about all mankind. King David himself said so (2 Samuel 7:19).

Neither does it say that it is to be fulfilled at the second coming of Christ. The phrase "I will return and rebuild the tabernacle of David" is not a reference to what God will do at the second coming of Christ. "I will return" is a general reference to God visiting men in salvation. James in Acts 15 clearly said that Amos was talking about the salvation of Gentiles beginning with his own time.

And after they had ceased, James arose and he said, “Men, brothers, hear me.” Simeon has related to you how God began to choose from the Gentiles a people for his name. And the words of the prophets agree with this, just as it is written:”

Ok, so it is clear beyond all doubt that James said that God's choosing of Gentiles in his time was in agreement with the prophets "just as it is written." Then he goes on to quote Amos about the restoring of the tabernacle of David and the salvation of Gentiles. It is not postponed until the indefinite and nebulous future. It was going on then and is going on now.

I will give you one more chance to be honest about this, sir. If you persist in twisting the scriptures I will cease engaging with you.

Acts 1:6-7 is further evidence that the kingdom was not restored and the time frame was yet future, and that the kingdom is specific to the Nation Israel!

Acts 1:6-7
6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;



RCM
 
And another thing-"All Israel" and "Jacob" includes all 12 tribes, not just the Jews. Only the Jews have not lost their national ID, and none of the other tribes have yet been restored.
 
It is quite obvious that Preterist Theology is inconsistent, contradictory, and just plain unbiblical, for example....

Preterists want to use Acts 15:13-18 as a proof text that Gentiles becoming Believers is fulfillment of David's Tabernacle being restored from the OT Book of Amos 9:11-12

Amos 9:11-12
11 "In that day I will raise up the fallen booth of David, And wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;
12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom And all the nations who are called by My name," Declares the LORD who does this.

Amos is saying that in the Day of the Lord (that day), the Lord, Himself, personally, and literally, will rebuild the fallen house of David, in fulfillment of His covenant with David, which implies that a descendant of David will sit on David's throne and reign over Israel, (which will be Jesus, Himself)

RCM


I read through your post and decided this was the crux of your argument. The rest was a juxtaposing may lay. Let's look at the passage again.

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Many times, New Testament writers do not give a straightforward interpretation of Old Testament texts. What we need to keep in mind is that this is not always what the writers were trying to do. This passage is being used to support YHWH using the Gentiles in the rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David. In essence, they are becoming part of Israel. Is the Tabernacle complete at this point. IMHO, no. YHWH just began the rebuilding. It won't be complete until His return.

Another parallel analogy would be:

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Thanks...
 
No getting away from the FACT that the eschatological events have NOT yet happened. Their occurrences are NOT found anywhere in history, and Jesus is NOT yet physically here.
 
I read through your post and decided this was the crux of your argument. The rest was a juxtaposing may lay. Let's look at the passage again.

You should have read all my posts so you wouldn't make the same erroneous arguments as the other preterists, but because you didn't, I will repost what you have overlooked because of faulty presuppositions
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Numerous Old Testament Scriptures foretell of the restoration of Israel

Especially Amos 9:14-15, which apparently you didn't read

Amos 9:14-15
14 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.

The tabernacle of David is specifically about the Nation Israel

2 Samuel 7 is all about the fact that the tabernacle of David only exists in relation to the Nation Israel

David's kingdom reigned over Edom, but the House of David and the throne of David were specific to the Nation Israel


Amos states 'In That Day' which is a reference to the Day of the Lord

Amos 9:11
11 "In that day I will raise up the fallen booth of David, And wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;

When James quotes it, he states, 'After These Things I Will Return'

Acts 15:16
16 'AFTER these things I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD the TABERNACLE of DAVID which has fallen, AND I WILL REBUILD its ruins, AND I WILL RESTORE it,


This makes the Day of the Lord and the second coming of Jesus synonymous, especially when the four Greek verbs in Acts 15:16 are in the future tense!

You are completely unable to analyze and interpret the grammatical structure or you are completely ignoring it



You are completely unable to evaluate the context of Acts 15

James is saying because there is testimony that the Gentiles are turning to faith in God, and because the Scriptures declare that when the Kingdom is restored to Israel, Gentiles will come to faith in God by the multitudes, that we should not hinder those who are turning now

Zechariah 8:20-23
20 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'It will yet be that peoples will come, even the inhabitants of many cities.
21 'The inhabitants of one will go to another, saying, "Let us go at once to entreat the favor of the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts; I will also go."
22 'So many peoples and mighty nations will come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem and to entreat the favor of the LORD.'
23 "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, saying, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'"
Many times, New Testament writers do not give a straightforward interpretation of Old Testament texts. What we need to keep in mind is that this is not always what the writers were trying to do. This passage is being used to support YHWH using the Gentiles in the rebuilding of the Tabernacle of David. In essence, they are becoming part of Israel. Is the Tabernacle complete at this point. IMHO, no. YHWH just began the rebuilding. It won't be complete until His return.

James quoted Amos under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and Luke wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and because of the Holy Spirit's inspiration we have clarification that the Day of the Lord is synonymous with the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.



You have cannot deal with the fact that Amos 9 and Acts 15 are foretelling the restoration of the Davidic Kingdom to the Nation Israel at the Return of Jesus Christ

You cannot deal with the fact that the four Greek verbs in Acts 15:16 are all in the future tense, pointing toward the Second Coming of Jesus Christ as the timeframe when the Davidic Kingdom will be restored to Israel

You have completely been unable to explain when Zechariah 8:20-23 is to be fulfilled, which is when the Davidic Kingdom will again reign over the area of Edom



Furthermore, Acts 1:6-7 is further evidence that the kingdom was not restored or beginning to be restored at the time of the Apostles, and that the restoration of the Davidic Kingdom time frame was still yet future, and that the kingdom is specific to the Nation Israel!

Acts 1:6-7
6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;


You go ahead and persist in your replacement theology, but it is unbiblical and heresy



RCM
 
You go ahead and persist in your replacement theology, but it is unbiblical and heresy



RCM
Hmmmm. You just disqualified yourself of any credibility. To bring out the “H” word shows how desperate you are to silence people with a differing view. You lose without me having to make another post…
 
Hmmmm. You just disqualified yourself of any credibility. To bring out the “H” word shows how desperate you are to silence people with a differing view. You lose without me having to make another post…

You cannot defend your opinion or position from Biblical Scripture

Acts 15 and Amos 9 clearly expose Preterism as heresy

Definition of heresy is, 'A Biblical interpretation, or presupposition that is clearly contradicted by multiple Biblical Scriptures'



Acts 15 and Amos 9 clearly present the 'Day of the Lord' and the 'Second Coming of Jesus' as synonymous, with the restoration of the Davidic Kingdom to the Nation Israel to follow, emphasized by four Greek Verbs in the Future tense!



You do not just have another or differing view, you deny God's Word which explicitly states that the Nation of Israel is going to be restored and the Davidic Kingdom will also be restored, and all God's promises in the Old Testament regarding ethnic Israel are still yet future!


You have disqualified yourself because Biblical Scripture refutes replacement theology!



RCM
 
@RCM---in your mind, what did the 'Land' itself signify?

God clearly states in His Word that the land was given to the ethnic descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel)

Do a word study on land in the Old Testament, and see who it belongs to and God's promises concerning the land!


Amos 9:14-15
14 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.


RCM
 
God clearly states in His Word that the land was given to the ethnic descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel)

Do a word study on land in the Old Testament, and see who it belongs to and God's promises concerning the land!


Amos 9:14-15
14 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.


RCM
Yup--I know, but that did not answer my question.
@RCM---in your mind, what did the 'Land' itself signify?
 
Still, no pret attempts to explain why the eschatological events they say have already happened are NOT found in history.
 
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