Prevenient Grace- Chosen in Him !

TomFL

Well-known member
Man naturally can't come to Christ, can't believe in Christ Jn 6 44 and 1 Cor 2 14
Scripture in the link shows you are wrong

Sorry no if they were regenerate they already would have has faith in Christ

Faith precedes regeneration (new life)

see signature link
 

TibiasDad

Active member
That scripture is so abused. Has nothing to do with Salvation in Christ. No man can choose Christ Jn 6:44

Sure it does, for Christ preached the same message when he said "No man can serve two masters" (Matt 6:24).We must choose whom we are going to serve, God or money, God or the gods of Egypt. Since Christ is God, he implies choosing him or someone other than him.

Of course, we cannot choose unless we are drawn; no one denies this. I do deny that it is irresistible, for many are invited, but few actually come. Those who do, will not be turned away!


Doug
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Scripture in the link shows you are wrong

Sorry no if they were regenerate they already would have has faith in Christ

Faith precedes regeneration (new life)

see signature link
Man naturally can't come to Christ nor understand the things of Christ 1 Cor 2:14 and Jn 6:44!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sure it does, for Christ preached the same message when he said "No man can serve two masters" (Matt 6:24).We must choose whom we are going to serve, God or money, God or the gods of Egypt. Since Christ is God, he implies choosing him or someone other than him.

Of course, we cannot choose unless we are drawn; no one denies this. I do deny that it is irresistible, for many are invited, but few actually come. Those who do, will not be turned away!


Doug
No man can come to Christ Jn 6:44
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
He enables choice, for we must "choose this day whom you will serve" (Josh 24:15) He desires results, he enables choice.


Doug

In contexr, Josh 24 is adressed to God's covenant people.

He desires results but leaves those results to chance? We are told He desires all to be saved. Why does He not enable all in such a way that all choose to come to faith?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You failed to address the scriptures which show you are wrong

See link
As long as man is in a state of nature, he cannot know the things of God 1 Cor 2:14, its equivalent to Jesus saying except a man is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. Jn 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

That word see means perceive, understand recognize. See the Gospel of Christ is also the Gospel of the Kingdom of God

Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Matt 24:14



And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
As long as man is in a state of nature, he cannot know the things of God 1 Cor 2:14, its equivalent to Jesus saying except a man is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God. Jn 3:3

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

That word see means perceive, understand recognize. See the Gospel of Christ is also the Gospel of the Kingdom of God

Mark 1:14

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Matt 24:14



And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
You failed to addres this

https://forums.carm.org/threads/calvinisms-life-and-death-problem.1503/post-100699
 

TibiasDad

Active member
In contexr, Josh 24 is adressed to God's covenant people.

He desires results but leaves those results to chance? We are told He desires all to be saved. Why does He not enable all in such a way that all choose to come to faith?
No, he leaves it to us, and he knows what we will choose, so there is absolute certainty. The only difference between our perspectives is who makes the choice. God's choice is to allow us to choose.

Hermeneutically, Israel is a representative of the entire human race, not just genetic Jews.
Isa 42:6“I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, 7to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.

So what God commands of Israel, is commanded of all people. It is the aggregate choice of individuals that determines the national result. The message for Israel is intended for all people of all mankind.


Doug
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
No, he leaves it to us, and he knows what we will choose, so there is absolute certainty. The only difference between our perspectives is who makes the choice. God's choice is to allow us to choose.

Hermeneutically, Israel is a representative of the entire human race, not just genetic Jews.
Isa 42:6“I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, 7to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.

So what God commands of Israel, is commanded of all people. It is the aggregate choice of individuals that determines the national result. The message for Israel is intended for all people of all mankind.


Doug
More Finneyism ^^^^^^^
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
No, he leaves it to us, and he knows what we will choose, so there is absolute certainty. The only difference between our perspectives is who makes the choice. God's choice is to allow us to choose.

Hermeneutically, Israel is a representative of the entire human race, not just genetic Jews.
Isa 42:6“I, the Lord, have called you in righteousness; I will take hold of your hand. I will keep you and will make you to be a covenant for the people and a light for the Gentiles, 7to open eyes that are blind, to free captives from prison and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.

So what God commands of Israel, is commanded of all people. It is the aggregate choice of individuals that determines the national result. The message for Israel is intended for all people of all mankind.


Doug
So why would God send His Son to die for those He knows will never choose to believe? And that's not the difference between us. I believe we choose as well. A choice determined by God to occur. A choice God provides the means as well as the ends. In yours God merely enables and the rest is up to you.

I disagree. Joshua is not adressed to Gentiles. It's adressed to those in covenant with God in the OT.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
So why would God send His Son to die for those He knows will never choose to believe? And that's not the difference between us. I believe we choose as well. A choice determined by God to occur. A choice God provides the means as well as the ends. In yours God merely enables and the rest is up to you.

I disagree. Joshua is not adressed to Gentiles. It's adressed to those in covenant with God in the OT.
Should we determine based on what we rationalize or based on what the word of God states

PS so you believe a choice must be made ?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Should we determine based on what we rationalize or based on what the word of God states

PS so you believe a choice must be made ?
Of course. But its a choice I would never make on my own. My choice is by God's grace and God's grace alone. I am enabled to make that choice. God in His infinite wisdom enables me in such a way my choice is certain. I will hear the voice of Christ when He calls and will believe. SOLA DEO GLORIA!!!
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Of course. But its a choice I would never make on my own. My choice is by God's grace and God's grace alone. I am enabled to make that choice. God in His infinite wisdom enables me in such a way my choice is certain. I will hear the voice of Christ when He calls and will believe. SOLA DEO GLORIA!!!
Grace is one thing determination is another

Your words above reflect grace but not determination

so which do you mean ?
 

civic

Well-known member
Yes by Gods grace He has predestined us to salvation as per Ephesians chapter 1 and Romans chapter 8. 2 entire chapters on the topic and we might as well throw in John 10 and Romans 9 into the equation. :)

Some people just do not like or appreciate Gods grace in election. They think they had something to do with it before the foundation of the world or in time rofl.......
 
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