Prevenient Grace- Chosen in Him !

TibiasDad

Active member
Right unless He is drawn, which is the New Birth at work. The Spirit leading to Christ inwardly.
That is the question at hand, and the basis of this forum’s existence. There is no scripture that explicitly or implicitly says unambiguously that the new birth necessarily precedes belief. If there were, we would not be having this discussion. Not John 6,10, not 1John 5:1; nothing period!

Doug
 

TibiasDad

Active member
Yet God draws only to salvation. He draws, saves, and will finally raise them, John 6:44. It is an unbroken truth, all drawn are saved and will be raised. This is the truth of Scripture.
You’ll have to show me where “saves” is in the Greek:

οὐδεὶς δύναται ἐλθεῖν πρός με ἐὰν μὴ ὁ Πατὴρ ὁ πέμψας με ἑλκύσῃ αὐτόν, κἀγὼ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐν τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ.

It does not say all who are drawn will necessarily come, but only that all who come are necessarily drawn first, and that those who actually have/do come will necessarily be raised on the last day. And I do not see any form of σῴζω anywhere in the verse.

Doug
 

TibiasDad

Active member
Yet God draws only to salvation. He draws, saves, and will finally raise them, John 6:44. It is an unbroken truth, all drawn are saved and will be raised. This is the truth of Scripture.

Furthermore, it definitely doesn’t say all who are drawn are saved! It says all who come are drawn, and those who actually come are promised to be raised! Indeed, this implies that salvation is effected in those who will be raised, but it doesn’t imply, much less state that all who are drawn necessarily come and are saved. That is an eisegetic reading of the text.

Doug
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That is the question at hand, and the basis of this forum’s existence. There is no scripture that explicitly or implicitly says unambiguously that the new birth necessarily precedes belief. If there were, we would not be having this discussion. Not John 6,10, not 1John 5:1; nothing period!

Doug
I know that newbirth is necessary to have faith, faith is the fruit of the Spirit. Gal 5:22 and that is what draws a person to Christ, otherwise no man can come to Christ Jn 6:44 that refutes freewill choice to believe in Christ.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I know that newbirth is necessary to have faith, faith is the fruit of the Spirit. Gal 5:22 and that is what draws a person to Christ, otherwise no man can come to Christ Jn 6:44 that refutes freewill choice to believe in Christ.
Except all these scripture show faith precedes life

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Except all these scripture show faith precedes life

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
You dont know those scriptures, hence Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 or the Sanctifying Work of the Spirit 12 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

So belief of the Truth[faith] is the fruit of Sanctification of the Spirit !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You dont know those scriptures, hence Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 or the Sanctifying Work of the Spirit 12 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

So belief of the Truth[faith] is the fruit of Sanctification of the Spirit !

Fruit of the spirit is for those who are saved not unbelieves

Do you never correct your errant doctrine ?
 
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