Pro-Abortion Bergoglio praised mass murderer.

Mysterium Fidei

Well-known member
, As a Bishop in the OC Church; This thread is nonsense.
No, actually it is completely accurate. Bergoglio gives lip service to being pro-life but praises, on multiple occasions, a mass murderer, guilty by her own admission of the murder of over 10,000 babies. He schmoozes up to pro-abortion politicians, celebrities and "experts."

I see one Novus Ordo bishop actually did something about at least one of the "Catholic" politicians openly promoting the murder of babies. He should excommunicate her, but this is a start.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251305/archbishop-cordileone-nancy-pelosi-communion-abortion
 

kiwimacnz

Active member
No, actually it is completely accurate. Bergoglio gives lip service to being pro-life but praises, on multiple occasions, a mass murderer, guilty by her own admission of the murder of over 10,000 babies. He schmoozes up to pro-abortion politicians, celebrities and "experts."

I see one Novus Ordo bishop actually did something about at least one of the "Catholic" politicians openly promoting the murder of babies. He should excommunicate her, but this is a start.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/251305/archbishop-cordileone-nancy-pelosi-communion-abortion
I'll take Nancy and give her the Mass.
 

kiwimacnz

Active member
So you are for the murder of the unborn too then. Is this the position of all schismatic bishops or just you in particular?
Murder is a legal term with a precise legal meaning; unlawful killing.
Abortion is legal thus it cannot be murder. You can all it anything else you like but not murder. As well, I support a woman's right to choose.
As for other Episcopi Vagante, they too can choose as they will.
 

Mysterium Fidei

Well-known member
So you are for the murder of the unborn too then.

Murder is a legal term with a precise legal meaning; unlawful killing.
Abortion is legal thus it cannot be murder. You can all it anything else you like but not murder. As well, I support a woman's right to choose.
As for other Episcopi Vagante, they too can choose as they will.
It is murder. You are a "priest" who supports the mutilation and murder of children in the womb and gain of profit by selling parts of their mutilated bodies to pharmaceutical companies.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
Murder is a legal term with a precise legal meaning; unlawful killing.
Abortion is legal thus it cannot be murder. You can all it anything else you like but not murder. As well, I support a woman's right to choose.
As for other Episcopi Vagante, they too can choose as they will.
The bible supersedes mans laws. Killing a person of any age, born or not is murder. And God takes offense. The fact you don't is truly mind boggling.
 

kiwimacnz

Active member
It is murder. You are a "priest" who supports the mutilation and murder of children in the womb and gain of profit by selling parts of their mutilated bodies to pharmaceutical companies.
No, once again murder is a SPECIFIC term with a SPECIFIC meaning. It means "Unlawful killing" Abortion is legal thus not murder, The rest of your post is simply emotive nonsense.
 

kiwimacnz

Active member
The bible supersedes mans laws. Killing a person of any age, born or not is murder. And God takes offense. The fact you don't is truly mind boggling.
Not in a modern secular state it does not. The Bible is a religious work, it is not a book of laws for a modern state which has people from many religious traditions living in it. Unless you happy for the law to give an equal weighting to the Qu'ran or the Bhagavad Gita?
 

Mysterium Fidei

Well-known member
No, once again murder is a SPECIFIC term with a SPECIFIC meaning. It means "Unlawful killing" Abortion is legal thus not murder, The rest of your post is simply emotive nonsense.
It is murder. It is the deliberate taking of a completely innocent life and then profiting off of the mutilation of the baby by selling the body parts for experimentation. It is sick, perverted, evil and satanic.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Not in a modern secular state it does not. The Bible is a religious work, it is not a book of laws for a modern state which has people from many religious traditions living in it. Unless you happy for the law to give an equal weighting to the Qu'ran or the Bhagavad Gita?
Nonsense.

From Got Questions https://www.gotquestions.org/you-shall-not-murder.html

Simply stated, the sixth of the Ten Commandments forbids the unjustified taking of a human life. However, the commandment itself has a couple of interesting elements that bear mentioning. First and foremost, different Bible translations give the appearance of different meanings, and there is potential for misunderstanding the actual meaning of the verse. Second, man was never created for the act of murdering another, and there needs to be an explanation for such a violent and final act towards another human being. Third, because of the translational challenge, we need to understand the difference between “murder” and “killing.” And last but not least, how does God view murder? To God, murder is not just physical in nature but also the condition of one’s heart towards another.

There are two different Hebrew words (ratsakh, mut) and two Greek words (phoneuo, apokteino) for “murder” and “killing.” One means “to put to death,” and the other means “to murder.” The latter one is the one prohibited by the Ten Commandments, not the former. In fact, ratsakh has a broader definition than the English word “murder.” Ratsakh also covers deaths due to carelessness or neglect but is never used when describing killing during wartime. That is why most modern translations render the sixth commandment “You shall not murder” rather than “You shall not kill.” However, a very large issue can arise depending on which translation one studies. The ever-popular King James Version renders the verse as “Thou shalt not kill,” therefore opening the door to misinterpreting the verse altogether. If the intended meaning of “Thou shalt not kill” was just that—no killing—it would render all of the God-endorsed bloodletting done by the nation of Israel a violation of God’s own commandment (Deuteronomy 20). But God does not break His own commandments, so, clearly, the verse does not call for a complete moratorium on the taking of another human life.

Why does man murder? We know that we were created in God’s image (Genesis 1:27) and we were made to live in harmony with God and with our fellow man. This harmony became impossible once sin entered into the picture (Genesis 3). With sin came the propensity for acting violently against one another. Anger, jealousy, pride and hatred can fuel man’s evil bent towards life-ending aggression. The first recorded act of murder was when Cain killed his brother Abel (Genesis 4:8). From that moment on, taking the life of another has been commonplace and, in some circles of society, acceptable. However, to God every life is important, and since God knew that man was sinful and evil and had become “lawless,” He enacted guidelines that would seek to modify man’s behavior (1 John 3:4).

So, is there a difference between murder and killing? First, it is important to note that not all killing is wrong. For instance, the apostle Paul talks about the right of the state to take the lives of evildoers (Romans 13:1-7). This relates to what is commonly referred to as capital punishment. Most countries have consequences for murder. In some cases this requires the life of the perpetrator and a suitable means of putting one to death is chosen and administered (Matthew 5:21; Exodus 21:14). Another instance of acceptable “killing” is that which is done during times of war and at the command of superiors. There were quite a few instances in Scripture where God endorsed and allowed the taking of other lives (1 Samuel 11; Judges 6–7). And finally, although far from acceptable, manslaughter is yet another form of killing someone. This unintentional act apparently happened so often in biblical times that cities of refuge were designated for the manslayer to seek refuge in (Exodus 21:13; Joshua 20). Again, it was never God’s intent to have to use such a drastic measure as taking one’s life to rectify a situation. So, God does make exceptions for the taking of another’s life as long as it lines up with His will. However, premeditated murder of an individual is never God’s will.

What is murder in God’s eyes? From the human perspective, murder is the physical act of taking another’s life. However, we also must consider that God defines murder as any thought or feeling of deep-seated hatred or malice against another person. In other words, it is more than just a physical act that constitutes murder to God, who tells us that “everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him” (1 John 3:15 ESV). When we harbor hatred in our hearts for another, we have committed the sin of murder in God’s eyes. The disdain towards another person never has to be demonstrated outwardly because God looks upon the heart for the truth (1 Samuel 16:7; Matthew 15:19). As Christians and as human beings, we know that unjustified killing is wrong. God’s Word is very clear on this point: “You shall not murder.” And what God says we must obey, or we face the consequences on judgment day.

The murder of the unborn in the womb is absolutely heinous.
 

kiwimacnz

Active member
It is murder. It is the deliberate taking of a completely innocent life and then profiting off of the mutilation of the baby by selling the body parts for experimentation. It is sick, perverted, evil and satanic.
And while you are entitled to your beliefs; they fail for two reasons: Firstly, is the fact that murder is always illegal and legal abortion, by definition, is always legal. Secondly, what you fail to mention is that in an abortion the nature of the "victim" is such that no charge of murder can be brought. The unborn child is not a person in being at the time it dies, hence not murder. The truth of this is seen by looking at jurisdictions where abortion is not legal. It isn't classed as murder there either.

Further no one is profiting off the sale of "body parts."
 

kiwimacnz

Active member
Nonsense.

From Got Questions https://www.gotquestions.org/you-shall-not-murder.html

Simply stated, the sixth of the Ten Commandments forbids the unjustified taking of a human life. However, the commandment itself has a couple of interesting elements that bear mentioning. First and foremost, different Bible translations give the appearance of different meanings, and there is potential for misunderstanding the actual meaning of the verse. Second, man was never created for the act of murdering another, and there needs to be an explanation for such a violent and final act towards another human being. Third, because of the translational challenge, we need to understand the difference between “murder” and “killing.” And last but not least, how does God view murder? To God, murder is not just physical in nature but also the condition of one’s heart towards another.

There are two different Hebrew words (ratsakh, mut) and two Greek words (phoneuo, apokteino) for “murder” and “killing.” One means “to put to death,” and the other means “to murder.” The latter one is the one prohibited by the Ten Commandments, not the former. In fact, ratsakh has a broader definition than the English word “murder.” Ratsakh also covers deaths due to carelessness or neglect but is never used when describing killing during wartime. That is why most modern translations render the sixth commandment “You shall not murder” rather than “You shall not kill.” However, a very large issue can arise depending on which translation one studies. The ever-popular King James Version renders the verse as “Thou shalt not kill,” therefore opening the door to misinterpreting the verse altogether. If the intended meaning of “Thou shalt not kill” was just that—no killing—it would render all of the God-endorsed bloodletting done by the nation of Israel a violation of God’s own commandment (Deuteronomy 20). But God does not break His own commandments, so, clearly, the verse does not call for a complete moratorium on the taking of another human life.

Why does man murder? We know that we were created in God’s image (Genesis 1:27) and we were made to live in harmony with God and with our fellow man. This harmony became impossible once sin entered into the picture (Genesis 3). With sin came the propensity for acting violently against one another. Anger, jealousy, pride and hatred can fuel man’s evil bent towards life-ending aggression. The first recorded act of murder was when Cain killed his brother Abel (Genesis 4:8). From that moment on, taking the life of another has been commonplace and, in some circles of society, acceptable. However, to God every life is important, and since God knew that man was sinful and evil and had become “lawless,” He enacted guidelines that would seek to modify man’s behavior (1 John 3:4).

So, is there a difference between murder and killing? First, it is important to note that not all killing is wrong. For instance, the apostle Paul talks about the right of the state to take the lives of evildoers (Romans 13:1-7). This relates to what is commonly referred to as capital punishment. Most countries have consequences for murder. In some cases this requires the life of the perpetrator and a suitable means of putting one to death is chosen and administered (Matthew 5:21; Exodus 21:14). Another instance of acceptable “killing” is that which is done during times of war and at the command of superiors. There were quite a few instances in Scripture where God endorsed and allowed the taking of other lives (1 Samuel 11; Judges 6–7). And finally, although far from acceptable, manslaughter is yet another form of killing someone. This unintentional act apparently happened so often in biblical times that cities of refuge were designated for the manslayer to seek refuge in (Exodus 21:13; Joshua 20). Again, it was never God’s intent to have to use such a drastic measure as taking one’s life to rectify a situation. So, God does make exceptions for the taking of another’s life as long as it lines up with His will. However, premeditated murder of an individual is never God’s will.


What is murder in God’s eyes? From the human perspective, murder is the physical act of taking another’s life. However, we also must consider that God defines murder as any thought or feeling of deep-seated hatred or malice against another person. In other words, it is more than just a physical act that constitutes murder to God, who tells us that “everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him” (1 John 3:15 ESV). When we harbor hatred in our hearts for another, we have committed the sin of murder in God’s eyes. The disdain towards another person never has to be demonstrated outwardly because God looks upon the heart for the truth (1 Samuel 16:7; Matthew 15:19). As Christians and as human beings, we know that unjustified killing is wrong. God’s Word is very clear on this point: “You shall not murder.” And what God says we must obey, or we face the consequences on judgment day.

The murder of the unborn in the womb is absolutely heinous.
The Bible has no legal AUTHORITY in your country, nor should it. We tried that in Europe in a period we call the "Dark Ages." Moreover you cannot make the Bible have legal authority without making the very same argument for the Qu'ran or the Gita.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
The Bible has no legal AUTHORITY in your country, nor should it. We tried that in Europe in a period we call the "Dark Ages." Moreover you cannot make the Bible have legal authority without making the very same argument for the Qu'ran or the Gita.
People who support the dismemberment of a child in the womb have many objections to facts.


If you can't face the fruit of your opinion, you are part of a problem. Stay in NZ, where the slaughter of the unborn is legal.
 

Mysterium Fidei

Well-known member
And while you are entitled to your beliefs; they fail for two reasons: Firstly, is the fact that murder is always illegal and legal abortion, by definition, is always legal. Secondly, what you fail to mention is that in an abortion the nature of the "victim" is such that no charge of murder can be brought. The unborn child is not a person in being at the time it dies, hence not murder. The truth of this is seen by looking at jurisdictions where abortion is not legal. It isn't classed as murder there either.

Further no one is profiting off the sale of "body parts."
So if the Supreme Court declares that rape is a Constitutionally protected right, then there is no more rape because it's not illegal anymore. If the Supreme Court says that there is a Constitutionally protected right to kill someone, then there is no more murder because killing someone is not illegal anymore. We have just wonderfully lowered the crime rate by legalizing crime!!

There is a Natural Law which has always held that the taking of an innocent life is wrong. The 10 Commandments declares that "thou shall not kill."

I don't need the Supreme Court or a secular society to tell me that the mutilation of an unborn baby in the womb of its mother is wrong. Any decent human being instinctively knows that.

Also Planned Parenthood absolutely does make money from the sale of the the mutilated body parts of their murdered victims. It is satanic and anyone who supports this practice is sick and honestly, from the ones I see protesting, I would say many of them are possessed.
 

Nondenom40

Well-known member
Not in a modern secular state it does not. The Bible is a religious work, it is not a book of laws for a modern state which has people from many religious traditions living in it. Unless you happy for the law to give an equal weighting to the Qu'ran or the Bhagavad Gita?
Gods word is higher than mans laws. Of course peoples laws are followed but that doesn't mean God isn't going to hold people accountable either in this life or the next. So ya, Gods law is higher.
 

mica

Well-known member
And while you are entitled to your beliefs; they fail for two reasons: Firstly, is the fact that murder is always illegal and legal abortion, by definition, is always legal. Secondly, what you fail to mention is that in an abortion the nature of the "victim" is such that no charge of murder can be brought. The unborn child is not a person in being at the time it dies, hence not murder. The truth of this is seen by looking at jurisdictions where abortion is not legal. It isn't classed as murder there either.

Further no one is profiting off the sale of "body parts."
according to man's law, not according to God's. same sex marriage is legal according to man's law too. Is it according to God's?
 
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