Pro-choice

BMS

Well-known member
Nope. Murder is a legal definition (ie. an illegal killing), and since abortion is legal, it is not murder.

ps. whether the ten commandments say "kill" or "murder" is very much open to debate...
Yep. Intentional killing of Jews in Nazi Germany was legal. But the definition of murder is
"the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

NB the Nazis killed Jews because they treated them a subhuman, and pro-choice kill unborn human offspring because they dont even consider them human

ps. no debate
 

Electric Skeptic

Well-known member
I am pro-life. I believe that life is a gift given to each person and only God has the right to take that life from him. A person who commits serious crimes such a murder may forfeit his right to life; if that happens it is permissible for the government to take that life from him. Except in cases like that no human has the right to take the life of another human.

I am pro-choice. I believe God has given all of us the power to make choices. Sometimes we may make wrong choices that have tragic consequences but we are free to make those choices.

Because I am pro-life and pro-choice I am anti-abortion. Abortion destroys an innocent life and prevents it from ever making any choices. Unfortunately I can’t tell anyone I am pro-choice because that would give them a false idea of what I believe. Advocates of abortion have stolen the “pro-choice” label and use it to indicate that someone is in favor of allowing abortion. They say that pregnant women have the right to choose to end their pregnancies by killing their unborn child. They deny that the child has any rights.

This isn’t the first time Satan has tried to suppress the truth be having his followers apply to themselves a name or label that rightfully belongs to those who support the truth. There are false religions that call themselves by names that actually belong to Christians.

No offense, but that's just silly. Nobody has "stolen" anything. The label 'pro-choice' has come to mean 'in favour of women legally being able to choose to abort a pregnancy'. You could claim you were 'pro-choice' regarding other things, but you'd need to explain that, because the term has come to be associated with abortion.

By the same token, the term 'pro-life' means 'against women legally being able to choose to abort a pregnancy'. I am 'pro-life' in general (for example, I'm opposed to capital punishment) but wouldn't use the term to describe myself without explaining precisely what I mean, because the term has become associated with abortion.

But I don't complain that anybody has 'stolen' the term 'pro-life'. To do so would be foolish. And the idea that any truth is trying to be suppressed by these usages is absurd.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
He already explained his views.

It is you who have not explained yours. Your only comments are riddled with personal insults. 'Silly, foolish, absurd' This carries through every post you make. No facts, just name-calling and ad hom.
 

BMS

Well-known member
No offense, but that's just silly. Nobody has "stolen" anything. The label 'pro-choice' has come to mean 'in favour of women legally being able to choose to abort a pregnancy'. You could claim you were 'pro-choice' regarding other things, but you'd need to explain that, because the term has come to be associated with abortion.

By the same token, the term 'pro-life' means 'against women legally being able to choose to abort a pregnancy'. I am 'pro-life' in general (for example, I'm opposed to capital punishment) but wouldn't use the term to describe myself without explaining precisely what I mean, because the term has become associated with abortion.

But I don't complain that anybody has 'stolen' the term 'pro-life'. To do so would be foolish. And the idea that any truth is trying to be suppressed by these usages is absurd.
That is absurd. Its just appropriating words.
The so called right of the mother to choose whether she can kill her own offspring is what is called pro-choice.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
One of the ten commandments is "Do not murder." That covers abortion.
Wrong. It doesn't cover warfare, lawful execution, self-defence, defence of others or abortion. Murder is premeditated, illegal and malicious. So not abortion.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Yep. Intentional killing of Jews in Nazi Germany was legal. But the definition of murder is
"the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another."

NB the Nazis killed Jews because they treated them a subhuman, and pro-choice kill unborn human offspring because they dont even consider them human

ps. no debate
Nice use of Godwin's Law. How unexpected. And wrong. The Nazi extermination of the Jews was never legal. That's why even minor camp guards can be tried and punished for their part in it.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Wrong. It doesn't cover warfare, lawful execution, self-defence, defence of others or abortion. Murder is premeditated, illegal and malicious. So not abortion.
Wrong. Pro-choice abortion is pre-meditated, illegal and malicious. Pro-choice abortion is not warfare, self defence, defence of others. Pro-life is defence of others.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Nice use of Godwin's Law. How unexpected. And wrong. The Nazi extermination of the Jews was never legal. That's why even minor camp guards can be tried and punished for their part in it.
Appeal to Godwin's law doesnt change the facts. The extermination of the Jews was legal in Nazi Germany because it was carried out by the ruling Nazi regime
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Appeal to Godwin's law doesnt change the facts. The extermination of the Jews was legal in Nazi Germany because it was carried out by the ruling Nazi regime
Wrong. This is simply contrary to the facts. Being in charge doesn't mean that you can disregard the law.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Wrong. Pro-choice abortion is pre-meditated, illegal and malicious. Pro-choice abortion is not warfare, self defence, defence of others. Pro-life is defence of others.
If you can find a single poster here who posts from a country where abortion is illegal, I'll buy you a biscuit.
 

puddleglum

Well-known member
If you can find a single poster here who posts from a country where abortion is illegal, I'll buy you a biscuit.

Since I am a Christian I am a citizen of Heaven and abortion is illegal there, so you owe me a biscuit. On second thought you don't, because I am not actually posting from Heaven.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Since I am a Christian I am a citizen of Heaven and abortion is illegal there, so you owe me a biscuit. On second thought you don't, because I am not actually posting from Heaven.
Not till you are dead. Secular laws apply here. Try burning a witch if you don't believe me. One of the greatest plagues of mankind is the religious nutcase who thinks that earthly rules don't apply to them. That kind of thinking produces 9/11.
 

BMS

Well-known member
If you can find a single poster here who posts from a country where abortion is illegal, I'll buy you a biscuit.
The point made to you was about the ten commandments in God's law, so it wasnt wrong as you claimed. You then responded about secular laws so you were not addressing the question.
As it happens, seemingly unware that you and puddleglum are under different secualr abortion laws anyway, to try and limit it to those countries of the people on this board.
Well I can play that game and I have limited it further to my opinion, which excludes yours, and you are badly mistaken and wrong.
Hard luck
 

BMS

Well-known member
If you can find a single poster here who posts from a country where abortion is illegal, I'll buy you a biscuit.
The point made to you was about the ten commandments in God's law, so it wasnt wrong as you claimed. You then responded about secular laws so you were not addressing the question.
As it happens, seemingly unware that you and puddleglum are under different secualr abortion laws anyway, to try and limit it to those countries of the people on this board.
Well I can play that game and I have limited it further to my opinion, which excludes yours, and you are badly mistaken and wrong.
Hard luck
 

BMS

Well-known member
Not till you are dead. Secular laws apply here. Try burning a witch if you don't believe me. One of the greatest plagues of mankind is the religious nutcase who thinks that earthly rules don't apply to them. That kind of thinking produces 9/11.
Which secualr laws are you applying, your counrty'' s or hers? If yours, her country's are better than your country's arent they?
 

Temujin

Well-known member
The point made to you was about the ten commandments in God's law, so it wasnt wrong as you claimed. You then responded about secular laws so you were not addressing the question.
As it happens, seemingly unware that you and puddleglum are under different secualr abortion laws anyway, to try and limit it to those countries of the people on this board.
Well I can play that game and I have limited it further to my opinion, which excludes yours, and you are badly mistaken and wrong.
Hard luck
Posting this twice doesn't make it sane.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
It was their law. Amazing that you are saying the Nazis were breaking their own laws and ideals.
Wrong again. The initial persecution of the Jews in Nazi Germany was through legal means. The extermination programme was extra-legal. This article argues that no such extermination programme can ever be legal.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Which secualr laws are you applying, your counrty'' s or hers? If yours, her country's are better than your country's arent they?
I don't know what you are trying to ask here. Try again in English. I will expand your opportunity for biscuits. If you can find any poster here who posts from a country where abortion is illegal or where the legal system is not secular, I'll buy you a biscuit. A chocolate biscuit if it is someone who has joined in these discussions. No one here lives in Heaven, whatever their aspirations. Earthly, that is secular, laws apply universally.
 
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