Provisionist

Kampioen

Active member
Basically, they believe God has provided everything people need in order to be Saved; without God having to go the extra-mile and Effectually make a 'real' difference in the life of a person; before they of their own Free Will make THE 'real' difference, compared to their Neighbor...

They ARE Saved by their very own Prevenient Free Will...
How can someone's own view be predetermined? .. unless maybe you are Molinist?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
How can someone's own view be predetermined? .. unless maybe you are Molinist?
If you really want to talk about things, I will. For instance, Seth wants to do all the talking...

I don't think Predeterminism is the topic of the Thread, and it seems you want to change the subject? I'm not a Molinist...

I'm a 5-Point Calvinist; an ABC and 123 Elementary 'mini' theolgian. I'm an Evangelical Reformed Independent Fundamental Baptist who likes Covenant Theology and Systematic Theology...
 
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preacher4truth

Well-known member
But we must ask how this oft misused phrase is used in context where it is found in Scripture.
Ok. My question is how is it used in Scripture (which I'm sure everyone will agree upon an we'll have a huge unity of brotherhood party.) ;)

I see the phrase used, and never with the scripture or its context, that Calvinist's make God a respecter of persons for believing that He chose all the saved, for believing He has chosen to elect whomsoever He wills.

That's a horrendous misusage and total misrepresentation. It is used as a combative against God's ways and those who accept His ways. The objective of the misusage here is to attempt to get rid of the truth of God electing whomsoever He wills and to cast shade on Calvinists.

The attack then centers on the accusatory "You must think you're special," spinning this way out of control by going ad hominem. It is a disingenuous slight in the sense they know our teaching one hundred percent rejects that because we are not elected based upon anything about us, but only by His purpose, grace, counsel, and will; Ephesians 1:1-14.

Now, I'll give one example where "respecter of persons" is used, and it is in Romans 2:1-10, with verse 11 using the phrase, which is rendered in the ESV as "For God shows no partiality." The context is sin and judgment, and the "(God) shows no partiality" phrase here means, contextually, that all of mankind will be judged on the same basis, whether Jew or Greek.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Ok. My question is how is it used in Scripture (which I'm sure everyone will agree upon an we'll have a huge unity of brotherhood party.) ;)

I see the phrase used, and never with the scripture or its context, that Calvinist's make God a respecter of persons for believing that He chose all the saved, for believing He has chosen to elect whomsoever He wills.

That's a horrendous misusage and total misrepresentation. It is used as a combative against God's ways and those who accept His ways. The objective of the misusage here is to attempt to get rid of the truth of God electing whomsoever He wills and to cast shade on Calvinists.

The attack then centers on the accusatory "You must think you're special," spinning this way out of control by going ad hominem. It is a disingenuous slight in the sense they know our teaching one hundred percent rejects that because we are not elected based upon anything about us, but only by His purpose, grace, counsel, and will; Ephesians 1:1-14.

Now, I'll give one example where "respecter of persons" is used, and it is in Romans 2:1-10, with verse 11 using the phrase, which is rendered in the ESV as "For God shows no partiality." The context is sin and judgment, and the "(God) shows no partiality" phrase here means, contextually, that all of mankind will be judged on the same basis, whether Jew or Greek.
Thanks, I see what you mean; the term is sort of transposed...
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Thanks, I see what you mean; the term is sort of transposed...
So it is not that He is a respecter of persons for electing whomsoever He wills Sovereignly. That would be His exercising mercy, not favoritism because it is not based upon what kind of person we are. If we think about it, it refutes conditional election, and the charge "respecter of person's" fits that unbiblical election model.

So the charge is baseless, and is really an attack on God, not us. I am reminded of the workers in the vineyard passage in Matthew 20:1-16. In verse 15 we read "Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me?" God certainly is "allowed" after all He is God.
 

fltom

Well-known member
I was just saying that Provisionists are usually Arminian that use Universalist arguments at times.
Lets not equivocate

There is a universalism which teaches all will be saved. That is the current meaning

Provisionists deny universalist interpretations which teach the idea all will be saved
 

fltom

Well-known member
I was just saying that Provisionists are usually Arminian that use Universalist arguments at times.
Neither Provisionists or Arminaians use universalist arguments

Universalist argument according to current meaning are arguments which argue for the salvation of everyone
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Neither Provisionists or Arminaians use universalist arguments

Universalist argument according to current meaning are arguments which argue for the salvation of everyone
It's a serious claim. If it's valid, being related to Universalism could get it and you Banned...
 

fltom

Well-known member
It's a serious claim. If it's valid, being related to Universalism could get it and you Banned...
It is a false claim

He attributed it to Arminians as well

Do you believe Arminians use universalist arguments ?

Do you think Arminians should be banned from the Arminian and Calvinist forum

think !
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
It is a false claim

He attributed it to Arminians as well

Do you believe Arminians use universalist arguments ?

Do you think Arminians should be banned from the Arminian and Calvinist forum

think !
On this I agree. I don't see how you arrive at universalism even with a elementary understanding of provisionists
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
It is a false claim

He attributed it to Arminians as well

Do you believe Arminians use universalist arguments ?

Do you think Arminians should be banned from the Arminian and Calvinist forum

think !
I disagree with him. But I just wanted to hear him out if he could make his point. I'm treating the Thread as a fact-finding exercise...
 
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