Provisionist

[preacher4truth]

There was no forced interpretation but his

Nonsense. You've tried to make believing what saved us. We are saved by grace, not faith, same book, keep turning the pages.

We were sealed, not saved when believers in our given text.

The fact is only someone who believes can be a believer, it is evidence of conversion by God, and that faith is His gift, not inherent ability, no matter how many times Finney Jr. at Choice Meats Inc. tells you differently.

Whether you use the KJV or the NASB or the ESV men are in Christ when they believe

Yes, they are in Him, which is why they believe. You gotta be hatin' that since it glorifies God, right? Doesn't that truth anger you? We receive because we were born of God. Soli Deo Gloria!

not in eternity

You don't believe Scripture, you believe what you want it to say and don't want it to say, if it glorifies you, then there ya go.

 

[fltom]

Reformedguy said:
NOWHERE does it say you are in Christ when you believe. Your in Him from the foundation of the world.

It NOWHERE says faithfulness is the basis of His choice. Hence you put it in parentheses

NOWHERE does it say the destination is what is chosen.

Learn to read

The "us" are

Ephesians 1:1 (ESV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

and you are in christ when you believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


sealed in Christ

when you heard and believed

not in eternity

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

no one could be in Christ before another if they were in Christ in eternity

you err greatly

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us (us was identified in verse 1) in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

nowhere is it stated any were chosen to be in him

rather he chosen those in Christ should be blameless and holy...............

the we does not change it represents believers, christians- those in Christ

verse 11

Ephesians 1:11 (KJV)
11 In whom also we (those addressed in verse 1) have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[preacher4truth]

Reformedguy said:

Use the quote feature so we can be sure of what the other person said. 100+- posts per day? You know how to do it.

 

[fltom]

Nonsense. You've tried to make believing what saved us. We are saved by grace, not faith, same book, keep turning the pages.

We were sealed, not saved when believers in our given text.

The fact is only someone who believes can be a believer, it is evidence of conversion by God, and that faith is His gift, not inherent ability, no matter how many times Finney Jr. at Choice Meats Inc. tells you differently.

Yes, they are in Him, which is why they believe. You gotta be hatin' that since it glorifies God, right? Doesn't that truth anger you? We receive because we were born of God. Soli Deo Gloria!

You don't believe Scripture, you believe what you want it to say and don't want it to say, if it glorifies you, then there ya go.

you have no idea what you are talking about

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

men are sealed in Christ when they believe

being in Christ means to be in a relationship with him - that is salvation

you just can't read

 

[fltom]

Use the quote feature so we can be sure of what the other person said. 100+- posts per day? You know how to do it.

It was not a quote but a statement of his points

read before you post

 

[fltom]

Before the foundation of the world.

Not anywhere is scripture

How can anyone be in Christ in eternity and be in Christ before another

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

hello

scripture refutes your claim there and here

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

 

[Reformedguy]

Learn to read

The "us" are

Ephesians 1:1 (ESV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

and you are in christ when you believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


sealed in Christ

when you heard and believed

not in eternity

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

no one could be in Christ before another if they were in Christ in eternity

you err greatly

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us (us was identified in verse 1) in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

nowhere is it stated any were chosen to be in him

rather he chosen those in Christ should be blameless and holy...............

the we does not change it represents believers, christians- those in Christ

verse 11

Ephesians 1:11 (KJV)
11 In whom also we (those addressed in verse 1) have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

That does not say faithfulness is the basis for them being chosen in Christ. You have to be kidding.

In him precedes what happens after.

Wrong. It says He chose "us". When? From the foundation of the world. You err greatly. Lol

They were chosen to be blameless and holy. "That we should be', future tense. Not because, past tense.

 

[preacher4truth]

Not anywhere is scripture

How can anyone be in Christ in eternity and be in Christ before another

See, if you cannot fathom it, it must not be true. You make truth subservient to you, your "truth" isn't objective, it's subjective.

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

That was being in Christ in time, which is also still from eternity. You can't deduce, can you?

hello

Uh huh...

scripture refutes your claim there and here

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Sealed, not saved. You still refuse to believe the plain word. You will not allow it to correct you.

 

[fltom]

That does not say faithfulness is the basis for them being chosen in Christ. You have to be kidding.

In him precedes what happens after.

Wrong. It says He chose "us". When? From the foundation of the world. You err greatly. Lol

They were chosen to be blameless and holy. "That we should be', future tense. Not because, past tense.

That is who is chosen to be holy and blameless before God in love

that is who is being addressed and included in the us

again it is plainly shown men are not in Christ before the foundation of the earth

you simply ignored this

you are in Christ when you believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

you did not hear and believe the gospel before the earth was created

but you sealed in Christ

when you heard and believed

not in eternity

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

no one could be in Christ before another if they were in Christ in eternity

 

[fltom]

See, if you cannot fathom it, it must not be true. You make truth subservient to you, your "truth" isn't objective, it's subjective.

That was being in Christ in time, which is also still from eternity. You can't deduce, can you?

Uh huh...

Sealed, not saved. You still refuse to believe the plain word. You will not allow it to correct you.

Except i did not state FROM eternity

I stated in Eternity and probable before the foundation of the earth

why are you switching terms

no one is in Christ before another if all are in Christ in eternity or before the foundation of the earth

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

hello

you are in Christ when you believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

are in Christ when you believe

further all blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (NKJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

if you were not in Christ before the foundation of the earth you are not blessed in Christ

 

[Reformedguy]

That is who is chosen to be holy and blameless before God in love

that is who is being addressed and included in the us

again it is plainly shown men are not in Christ before the foundation of the earth

you simply ignored this

you are in Christ when you believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

you did not hear and believe the gospel before the earth was created

but you sealed in Christ

when you heard and believed

not in eternity

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

no one could be in Christ before another if they were in Christ in eternity

Thats what I said. They were chosen to be, not because of. Glad you agree.

It says "us", individuals were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world.

It does not say belief or faithfulness is the basis for one being in Christ. Nowhere does it say in Christ, it says chosen to be.

No one said I believed before the world was. Strawman no matter how many rides you say it or reword it.

 

[Reformedguy]

Except i did not state FROM eternity

I stated in Eternity and probable before the foundation of the earth

why are you switching terms

no one is in Christ before another if all are in Christ in eternity or before the foundation of the earth

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

hello

you are in Christ when you believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

are in Christ when you believe

further all blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (NKJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

if you were not in Christ before the foundation of the earth you are not blessed in Christ

Romans 16:7 does not say they were in Christ because they believed. Parentheses won't help either

 

[Reformedguy]

Except i did not state FROM eternity

I stated in Eternity and probable before the foundation of the earth

why are you switching terms

no one is in Christ before another if all are in Christ in eternity or before the foundation of the earth

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

hello

you are in Christ when you believe

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

are in Christ when you believe

further all blessing are in Christ

Ephesians 1:3 (NKJV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

if you were not in Christ before the foundation of the earth you are not blessed in Christ

Nope, it does not say you are in Christ because you believed. In dact point to one verse anywhere that says your in Crist BECAUSE....show us, we will wait.

 

[fltom]

That does not say faithfulness is the basis for them being chosen in Christ. You have to be kidding.

In him precedes what happens after.

Wrong. It says He chose "us". When? From the foundation of the world. You err greatly. Lol

They were chosen to be blameless and holy. "That we should be', future tense. Not because, past tense.

try again

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

no in him does not precede what follows


Ephesians 1:13 (CSBBible)
13 In him you also were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed.



Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

no trust in eternity but after you heard the word of truth

sealed in Christ after you believed

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB77)
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

sealed in him

after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed


There is no in Christ before you heard the gospel or before you believe



no it should not be future tense God in eternity chose that those in Christ should be holy and blameless .............

 

[fltom]

Thats what I said. They were chosen to be, not because of. Glad you agree.

It says "us", individuals were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world.

It does not say belief or faithfulness is the basis for one being in Christ. Nowhere does it say in Christ, it says chosen to be.

No one said I believed before the world was. Strawman no matter how many rides you say it or reword it.

read

Provisionist

There was no forced interpretation but his Nonsense. You've tried to make believing what saved us. We are saved by grace, not faith, same book, keep turning the pages. We were sealed, not saved when believers in our given text. The fact is only someone who believes can be a believer, it is...

forums.carm.org

being in Christ requires hearing the gospel and believing

 

[fltom]

Nope, it does not say you are in Christ because you believed. In dact point to one verse anywhere that says your in Crist BECAUSE....show us, we will wait.

again read the scriptures. It is not difficult

I even color coded four translations

Provisionist

There was no forced interpretation but his Nonsense. You've tried to make believing what saved us. We are saved by grace, not faith, same book, keep turning the pages. We were sealed, not saved when believers in our given text. The fact is only someone who believes can be a believer, it is...

forums.carm.org

 

[fltom]

Romans 16:7 does not say they were in Christ because they believed. Parentheses won't help either

The point is some were in Christ before others

That would not be true if all were in Christ in eternity

think

you are refuted

men are not in Christ in eternity

and all blessing are in christ

Ephesians 1:3 (NASB77)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

 

[Reformedguy]

try again

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

no in him does not precede what follows


Ephesians 1:13 (CSBBible)
13 In him you also were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed.



Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

no trust in eternity but after you heard the word of truth

sealed in Christ after you believed

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB77)
13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

sealed in him

after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation-- having also believed


There is no in Christ before you heard the gospel or before you believe



no it should not be future tense God in eternity chose that those in Christ should be holy and blameless .............

But it is future tense. From the foundation it would be genius. It would be realized in time.

Ya, read it again. In Him does precede what follows.

No verse anywhere says belief or faithfulness is the BASIS for you being chosen in Christ. That is why you had to add it in parentheses. Lurkers take note. Tom must add to the word of God to make his case.

 

[Reformedguy]

The point is some were in Christ before others

That would not be true if all were in Christ in eternity

think

you are refuted

men are not in Christ in eternity

and all blessing are in christ

Ephesians 1:3 (NASB77)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

In time they would be. In eternity they would not be. God exists outside of time. In the mind of God you have always been in Christ, always been elect. If God is omniscient is there a point in time when God did not know you were in Christ. Of course not. Get it together

 

[fltom]

But it is future tense. From the foundation it would be genius. It would be realized in time.

Ya, read it again. In Him does precede what follows.

No verse anywhere says belief or faithfulness is the BASIS for you being chosen in Christ. That is why you had to add it in parentheses. Lurkers take note. Tom must add to the word of God to make his case.

sure they do right here

Provisionist

There was no forced interpretation but his Nonsense. You've tried to make believing what saved us. We are saved by grace, not faith, same book, keep turning the pages. We were sealed, not saved when believers in our given text. The fact is only someone who believes can be a believer, it is...

forums.carm.org

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

when were they sealed in him with the promised holy Spirit

BTW the promise of the Holy spirit was not fulfilled until the New covenent

Galatians 3:14 (ESV)
14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

and through faith