Provisionist

Manfred

Well-known member
What He has done for one, He does for all.
11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, The older will serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
the fact mankind spirals out of control to the point that the Gospel is "hidden" entirely in society. This happened multiple times in man's history.
Un-biblical postulating.

The gospel is hidden because of the curse spoken by God in the garden after the fall of man.

This idea that man has the ability to believe if only they did not spin so out of control is nothing but fiction.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
I hold the position that God periodically has provided/done all that is necessary for salvation for humanity. I believe generations of humanity have destroyed the Gospel message to their own detriment.
Let me understand you. Are you saying you believe that God provided salvation apart from Christ periodically, and that men have been able to DESTROY the spiritual message within the Gospel....
 

Manfred

Well-known member
It's a serious claim. If it's valid, being related to Universalism could get it and you Banned...
"Universalist" arguments from Arminians and Provisionalists:

1. Each and every person is drawn by God and hear and learn from Him
2. Jesus died and atoned for the sin of each and every person on earth.
3. Each and every person on earth has "general" revelation that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior and have the ability to believe in Him.

To them, that is Sovereignty, yet they argue that man then has the ultimate sovereignty by being able to reject the drawing, hearing and learning and the atonement and choose hell.
Man's choice sovereign over the "universal" election of God!
 

fltom

Well-known member
Sorry, chosen in Him from the foundation of the world.

Where does it say belief is the basis for being chosen in Christ?
First do not divert

No one is in Christ who has not believed

Scripture and your peer refuted you

those who would be in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless........

no one is chosen to be in Christ
 

fltom

Well-known member
Why are you misrepresenting me by only concentrating on part of what I stated? That's dishonest of you.
Your words

Yep

to

fltom said:
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


In him you also
were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

when?

when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him,

and you had replied

It is dishonest of you to deny your own words
 

fltom

Well-known member
See Ephesians 1:4

Where does it say belief is the basis for being chosen in Christ? Lurkers take notice. He will not answer
Sorry you cannot be chosen in Christ if you are not in Christ

how does one get in Christ

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

One is sealed in Christ when one hears and believes
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
First do not divert

No one is in Christ who has not believed

Scripture and your peer refuted you

those who would be in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless........

no one is chosen to be in Christ
Sure they are. See Ephesians 1:4

Where does it say belief is the basis for being chosen?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Sure they are. See Ephesians 1:4

Where does it say belief is the basis for being chosen?
Nope

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (ESV)
7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

some being in Christ before another shows it happens in time
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Sorry you cannot be chosen in Christ if you are not in Christ

how does one get in Christ

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

One is sealed in Christ when one hears and believes
Nope, Ephesians 1:4. Chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world. Why are we chosen? To be holy and blameless.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Nope

Ephesians 1:13 (ESV)
13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Romans 16:7 (ESV)
7 Greet Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners. They are well known to the apostles, and they were in Christ before me.

some being in Christ before another shows it happens in time
Yup, chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world. See Ephesians 1:4

Where does it say belief is the basis for being chose??
 

fltom

Well-known member
Yup, chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world. See Ephesians 1:4

Where does it say belief is the basis for being chose??
Believers were chosen to be holy and and blameless

US = believers

Ephesians 1:1 (ESV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:


not non-existent men

In Christ

you can't be in Christ without believing

What does it mean to be “in Christ?
The person who believes in Jesus Christ is identified with Christ: that is, he is counted and considered to be “in Christ,” accounted and credited as “in Christ.” Spelled out in a little more detail, when a person believes in Christ, God places and positions the believer “in Christ”.
www.sermoncentral.com/sermons/can-a-man-become-a-…

So how do you get “in Christ”?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Literally, the Greek reads, “whoever believes into Him.” We believe into Jesus. When we repent—turn from our sin and turn to God—and believe in Jesus, we believe into Christ. We are in Christ. Paul adds:
 

fltom

Well-known member
Nope, Ephesians 1:4. Chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world. Why are we chosen? To be holy and blameless.
Believers

Us = believers

Believers were chosen to be holy and blameless

not men who had no existence unconditionally selected
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Believers were chosen to be holy and and blameless

US = believers

Ephesians 1:1 (ESV)
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:


not non-existent men

In Christ

you can't be in Christ without believing

What does it mean to be “in Christ?
The person who believes in Jesus Christ is identified with Christ: that is, he is counted and considered to be “in Christ,” accounted and credited as “in Christ.” Spelled out in a little more detail, when a person believes in Christ, God places and positions the believer “in Christ”.
www.sermoncentral.com/sermons/can-a-man-become-a-…

So how do you get “in Christ”?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Literally, the Greek reads, “whoever believes into Him.” We believe into Jesus. When we repent—turn from our sin and turn to God—and believe in Jesus, we believe into Christ. We are in Christ. Paul adds:
It says nothing like this is how you get in Christ. Nowhere is belief said to be the basis for being chosen. Your cut and paste is waisting time

There is no whosoever in the Greek
 

fltom

Well-known member
It says nothing like this is how you get in Christ. Nowhere is belief said to be the basis for being chosen. Your cut and paste is waisting time

There is no whosoever in the Greek
Come out of your denial

One has to believe to be in Christ

God chose believers (the us from Eph 1:1)

Nowhere does the bible state he unconditionally chose men to be in Christ

that is your theology not scripture

In Christ refers to a relation between Christ and yourself based upon faith

unbelievers cannot be in Christ
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Come out of your denial

One has to believe to be in Christ

God chose believers (the us from Eph 1:1)

Nowhere does the bible state he unconditionally chose men to be in Christ

that is your theology not scripture

In Christ refers to a relation between Christ and yourself based upon faith

unbelievers cannot be in Christ
There is no whosoever in the Greek and the tense is present. "the every one who IS BELIEVEING" . Nice try but a utter fail.

So we ask again, where is belief the basis for being chosen?
 
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