Provisionist

fltom

Well-known member
Yes.

It is nowhere in Scripture.
Duh how do you think you get in christ

Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those in Christ are indwelt by the Spirit

ad that takes faith John 7:38, 39 Gal 3:14 etc
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Duh how do you think you get in christ

Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those in Christ are indwelt by the Spirit

ad that takes faith John 7:38, 39 Gal 3:14 etc
Sorry, nothing about belief being the basis for being chosen. Keep looking
It will keep you busy in perpetuity. Hopefully
 

fltom

Well-known member
Sorry, nothing about belief being the basis for being chosen. Keep looking
It will keep you busy in perpetuity. Hopefully
read

Believers (those in Christ) are chosen to be holy Holy and blameless

Not non existent men

This passage explains what it is to be in Christ

Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those in Christ are indwelt by the Spirit

ad that takes faith John 7:38, 39 Gal 3:14 etc

want to explain how all those things were true of you before you existed
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
read

Believers (those in Christ) are chosen to be holy Holy and blameless

Not non existent men

This passage explains what it is to be in Christ

Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those in Christ are indwelt by the Spirit

ad that takes faith John 7:38, 39 Gal 3:14 etc

want to explain how all those things were true of you before you existed
Still nothing about belief being the basis for being chosen. Cutting and pasting will not that.

In the mind of God could those things be true before I existed? Remember you believe God is omniscient. I will remind you to help you from saying something really dumb. I am actually starting to feel sorry for you. So think before you answer.
 

fltom

Well-known member
There is no whosoever in the Greek and the tense is present. "the every one who IS BELIEVEING" . Nice try but a utter fail.

So we ask again, where is belief the basis for being chosen?
LOL

Did you even read what you are replying to

it has nothing to do with any whosoever or tense

you are addressing an argument which was not made in the post you supposedly are replying to

LOL

see
.............................................

Come out of your denial

One has to believe to be in Christ

God chose believers (the us from Eph 1:1)

Nowhere does the bible state he unconditionally chose men to be in Christ

that is your theology not scripture

In Christ refers to a relation between Christ and yourself based upon faith

unbelievers cannot be in Christ

...................................................

Care to address what was actually stated?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
LOL

Did you even read what you are replying to

it has nothing to do with any whosoever or tense

you are addressing an argument which was not made in the post you supposedly are replying to

LOL

see
.............................................

Come out of your denial

One has to believe to be in Christ

God chose believers (the us from Eph 1:1)

Nowhere does the bible state he unconditionally chose men to be in Christ

that is your theology not scripture

In Christ refers to a relation between Christ and yourself based upon faith

unbelievers cannot be in Christ

...................................................

Care to address what was actually stated?
Sure it does. The verse refers to those who already believe. There is no whosoever believes as you little cut and paste tried to say. Try to do better. This is to easy. Your starting to bore me
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
You have to be in Christ to be chosen in Chriust
Chriust? Who's that? Freudian slip?

Sorry, but that isn't in the text, you're in error.

Here is William Burkitt on this issue, there are many more who hold to the truth of the passage:

Note, 1. The favour and privilege vouchsafed by God, He hath chosen. This denotes the freeness of the favour: he chose when he might have refused. His book of life is a book of love; the cause of our love is in the object; the reason of God's love is in himself.

Note, 2. The subject of this favour, He hath chosen us, us Gentiles. The Jews much gloried in their being a chosen generation, a peculiar people; we Gentiles are a chosen generation also; they were beloved for their father's sake, Abraham's, we for Christ's sake.

Note, 3. The antiquity of this favour: Before the foundation of the world: that is, from all eternity. The apostle, to take the Jews off from boasting, as they did, that the world was made for their sake, and that the Messiah from the beginning of the world did enter into a covenant with God to redeem them especially, declares, that the despised Gentiles were elected and chosen by God to be an holy people to himself; and all this, in the purpose of God, before the foundations of the world were laid.

Now, Tom? Please go find a true theologian who agrees with your twisting of the text to being chosen because you did something. The fact of the matter is you eisegete into the text what you want it to say. But please, fetch commentary, I want to dismantle that and show how you twist it and leave off portions that give context, showing you misused it.

and one is in Christ through faith
No. One is in Christ by the election of Grace before the world was, that is in the text. The realization and actuality of this takes place in time, as witnessed in the text. I love that truth, it glorifies God! Soli Deo Gloria!!!

Some practical observations for you:

I know, I know, you hate that truth, it doesn't focus on you, it focuses on God being God, something you cannot stomach.

Give God the glory, I know that's a difficult proposition for you when your religion is humanism, merited election, and merited grace.

You must ask yourself Tom, why you are opposed to the truth of Scripture and hold such an aversion to giving God all the glory. That's something you must face here before there.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Still nothing about belief being the basis for being chosen. Cutting and pasting will not that.
Still denial

He chose men in Christ

You cannot be in Christ without believing

and this certainly was not true of iou in a non existent state


Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

rather in a non existent state you were none of his

The Holy spirit did not reside in you from birth

nor were you a new creation

2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Hello

This was not true of you at birth
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Duh how do you think you get in christ

Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those in Christ are indwelt by the Spirit

ad that takes faith John 7:38, 39 Gal 3:14 etc
Sigh...nothing in that text supports your false teachings.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Chriust? Who's that? Freudian slip?

Sorry, but that isn't in the text, you're in error.

Here is William Burkitt on this issue, there are many more who hold to the truth of the passage:

Note, 1. The favour and privilege vouchsafed by God, He hath chosen. This denotes the freeness of the favour: he chose when he might have refused. His book of life is a book of love; the cause of our love is in the object; the reason of God's love is in himself.

Note, 2. The subject of this favour, He hath chosen us, us Gentiles. The Jews much gloried in their being a chosen generation, a peculiar people; we Gentiles are a chosen generation also; they were beloved for their father's sake, Abraham's, we for Christ's sake.

N

Some practical observations for you:

I know, I know, you hate that truth, it doesn't focus on you, it focuses on God being God, something you cannot stomach.

Give God the glory, I know that's a difficult proposition for you when your religion is humanism, merited election, and merited grace.

You must ask yourself Tom, why you are opposed to the truth of Scripture and hold such an aversion to giving God all the glory. That's something you must face here before there.
LOL

That is corporate election of gentiles

You do even understand what you quote

the rest is just your false rhetoric and ad hominem without which you cannot post

because quite clearly your interpretive skills are quite lacking and you are incapable of arguing based solely on scripture
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Still denial

He chose men in Christ

You cannot be in Christ without believing

and this certainly was not true of iou in a non existent state


Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

rather in a non existent state you were none of his

The Holy spirit did not reside in you from birth

nor were you a new creation

2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Hello

This was not true of you at birth
Since you teach that you put yourself into Christ it may be plausible you're still in Adam. No man takes themselves out of Adam, and puts themselves in Christ, but that is what you're trying to pass off.

Your teaching is asinine, smug, humanistic twaddle, and nothing less.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Sigh...nothing in that text supports your false teachings.

Sorry you offer only bald denial

and address nothing

How did you get in Christ as was asked

...............................


fltom said:
Duh how do you think you get in christ

Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those in Christ are indwelt by the Spirit

ad that takes faith John 7:38, 39 Gal 3:14 etc

...............................

what can you prove false?
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
LOL

That is corporate election of gentiles

You do even understand what you quote

the rest is just your false rhetoric and ad hominem without which you cannot post

because quite clearly your interpretive skills are quite lacking and you are incapable of arguing based solely on scripture
You have offered nothing but ridicule, no substance. You have nothing to support you in commentary.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Since you teach that you put yourself into Christ it may be plausible you're still in Adam. No man takes themselves out of Adam, and puts themselves in Christ, but that is what you're trying to pass off.

Your teaching is asinine, smug, humanistic twaddle, and nothing less.
What i teach is a man is in Christ through faith

why did you fail to address


Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those in Christ are indwelt by the Spirit

and that takes faith John 7:38, 39 Gal 3:14 etc

you disagree?

quote scripture that states/shows a man is in Christ before he believes
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
You all have a good day, Tom isn't going to learn the truth, he actually opposes it, and only offers ad hominem ridicule.

Getting off his silly humanistic merry go round. He reminds me of several bad characters in The Pilgrim's Progress.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
read

Believers (those in Christ) are chosen to be holy Holy and blameless

Not non existent men

This passage explains what it is to be in Christ

Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Those in Christ are indwelt by the Spirit

ad that takes faith John 7:38, 39 Gal 3:14 etc

want to explain how all those things were true of you before you existed
Still nothing about belief being the basis for being chosen.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Still denial

He chose men in Christ

You cannot be in Christ without believing

and this certainly was not true of iou in a non existent state


Romans 8:1-9 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

rather in a non existent state you were none of his

The Holy spirit did not reside in you from birth

nor were you a new creation

2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Hello

This was not true of you at birth
Sure it's true at my birth. God knows so in the mind of God it's true and what He k ows is true is realized in time.

Also, still nothing about belief being the basis for my being chosen. 😴👈
 

fltom

Well-known member
You all have a good day, Tom isn't going to learn the truth, he actually opposes it, and only offers ad hominem ridicule.

Getting off his silly humanistic merry go round. He reminds me of several bad characters in The Pilgrim's Progress.
You bear false witness

I posted scripture you ignored it and indulged in ad hominem

Quote scripture showing this could be true of an unbeliever

Romans 8:9 (KJV)
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Are unbelievers filled with and controlled by the Spirit?

Those in Christ are

Romans 8:1 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

and if you are not filled with the Spirit you are not his or in Christ
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Chriust? Who's that? Freudian slip?

Sorry, but that isn't in the text, you're in error.

Here is William Burkitt on this issue, there are many more who hold to the truth of the passage:

Note, 1. The favour and privilege vouchsafed by God, He hath chosen. This denotes the freeness of the favour: he chose when he might have refused. His book of life is a book of love; the cause of our love is in the object; the reason of God's love is in himself.

Note, 2. The subject of this favour, He hath chosen us, us Gentiles. The Jews much gloried in their being a chosen generation, a peculiar people; we Gentiles are a chosen generation also; they were beloved for their father's sake, Abraham's, we for Christ's sake.

Note, 3. The antiquity of this favour: Before the foundation of the world: that is, from all eternity. The apostle, to take the Jews off from boasting, as they did, that the world was made for their sake, and that the Messiah from the beginning of the world did enter into a covenant with God to redeem them especially, declares, that the despised Gentiles were elected and chosen by God to be an holy people to himself; and all this, in the purpose of God, before the foundations of the world were laid.

Now, Tom? Please go find a true theologian who agrees with your twisting of the text to being chosen because you did something. The fact of the matter is you eisegete into the text what you want it to say. But please, fetch commentary, I want to dismantle that and show how you twist it and leave off portions that give context, showing you misused it.


No. One is in Christ by the election of Grace before the world was, that is in the text. The realization and actuality of this takes place in time, as witnessed in the text. I love that truth, it glorifies God! Soli Deo Gloria!!!

Some practical observations for you:

I know, I know, you hate that truth, it doesn't focus on you, it focuses on God being God, something you cannot stomach.

Give God the glory, I know that's a difficult proposition for you when your religion is humanism, merited election, and merited grace.

You must ask yourself Tom, why you are opposed to the truth of Scripture and hold such an aversion to giving God all the glory. That's something you must face here before there.
This proposition that provisionist are deists is starting to make more and more sense.
 
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