You still have salvation dependent upon man believing
denying salvation is all of God
Provisionist
- Thread starter Reformedguy
- Start date
denying salvation is all of God
Reformedguy
Well-known member
My salvation is dependent on God alone. Without Him I woukd not take my next breath. He provides the means as well as the ends. In your silly theology He only provides the means. BIG difference
Who is it that is believing?
is God doing that for you?
Is it not you?
then it is not all of God as you claim
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Yup, it's me which I would not do if God were did not cause me to do so. I will repeat myself for the lurkers sake. In Reformed theology, God provides the means as well as the ends. The Provisionist position is God Merely provides the means and the ends is left to your willfull choice to God's humble request. If you do you are rewarded, for making the right choice, with eternal life. BIG difference
Libertarian means nonpredetermined so libertarian faith is nonpredetermined faith.
Faith comes from ourselves based on what we learned from God.
Yes, salvation is spiritual, not natural and is Scripturally given after faith.
If predetermination were true, nothing could be anyone's own works because God would be the first cause of all good and evil.
Yep in Calvinism God has determined all you do
Manfred
Well-known member
In other words faith that is decided on. The Spirit of God is not involved correct.
Where does the Bible teach faith comes from yourself? Where does the Bible teach the Spirit is not involved?
Where does the Bible teach you can understand anything spiritual in the natural in order to make yourself believe unto salvation.
All are born in the flesh, under the curse brought upon mankind through Adam. Fallen man can choose to do whatever he wants. He has free will.
Even when saved, if you walk in the flesh, you choose according to the flesh. This does not please God much.
So you need to do something for your salvation
Judging based on precedence from your claims
you teach works salvation
Reformedguy
Well-known member
In all things give thanks. For tom the exception is faith. That he did on his own. Tom's prayer: thanks Lord for all your many blessings. Except for my faith, I deserve the credit and glory for that. Thanks for making it possible for me to make the right choice though and rewarding me for doing so.
You ran from the fact that your theology holds man must do something to be saved
again, according to your previous claim, you teach works salvation and deny salvation is all of God
Reformedguy
Well-known member
I forgot amen at the end of your prayer.
You also forgot to say anything about your works salvation theology
your theology holds man must do something to be saved
again, according to your previous claims, you teach works salvation and deny salvation is all of God
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Do you pray that at least one ce a day thanking yourself? Can you lose your faith you came up with on your own?
Do you thank yourself for doing your part ?
No just the opposite
A respecter of person treats people unequally based on status, position, power or wealth etc .
No provisionism does not teach universalism
Your claim is an error based upon your understanding of atonement
Manfred
Well-known member
He knows it's true. He has been thoroughly refuted.
He is unable to confirm his own teachings. He dances around it because he knows he will step on coals.
@fltom
You teach man supplies faith - prove us wrong that you don't teach this!
You teach that if man does not supply the faith, he cannot be saved. - prove us wrong that you don't teach this!
You teach that man is salved only when he is the provider faith, without which provision salvation is not possible, therefore by and through man salvation is obtained. - prove us wrong that you don't teach this.
Please adhere to the principles and criteria of valid inference and demonstration. Alternatively show that saying you teach meritorious faith, and therefore by default meritorious salvation is illogical.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Lol oh boy. You might have to dumb that question down a little
LOL
You fabricate
There are many verse you cannot address
Address scripture
| scripture shows men are regenerated made alive through faith John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. A dead man passed from death to life upon believing John 5:25 ¶ “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. The dead who hear live John 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. Dead men come to Christ to live John 20:31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. Dead man believes that he might have life Acts 11:18 —ESV “When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”” dead man repents to have life John 3:36 —ESV “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” dead man believes to receive life that is eternal John 6:40 —ESV “For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”” again dead man believes to receive life that is eternal John 6:47 —ESV “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.” Men needed to be hardened so they could not believe John 12:40 —KJV “He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” had men not hardened themselves they could have believed Acts 28:27 —KJV “For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV “And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:” God's word says/shows it is sufficient John 20:31 (KJV 1900) 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. This clearly presupposes the gospel may be understood 2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV 1900) 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. presupposes Holy scriptures may be understood Isaiah 55:11 (KJV 1900) 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: It shall not return unto me void, But it shall accomplish that which I please, And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. God’s word prospers in whatever it is set out to do Psalm 19:7 (KJV 1900) 7 ………………………The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 119:130 (KJV 1900) 130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; It giveth understanding unto the simple. Self explanitory Romans 10:17 (KJV 1900) 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The word of God brings faith. It must be understood to do so Acts 17:11 —KJV “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” This shows one can judge spiritual truth by the scriptures which must be understood to do so Acts 18:28 —KJV “For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.” Presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood John 1:7 —KJV “The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.” Again presupposes spiritual truth explained can be understood James 1:21 (KJV) 21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. Presupposes the word has power to save Ephesians 3:4 (KJV) 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Presupposes reading sufficient to knowv spiritual truth When God wanted Cornelius to receive the gospel he sent a preacher Acts 11:13-14 (KJV) 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. The spirit sent Philip to preach the gosperl to the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27-35 (KJV) 27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. continued in pt2 |
You cannot receive the spirit without faith
John 7:38–39 —ESV
“Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’”
Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.”
Gal. 3:2 —ESV
“Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?”
Gal. 3:5 —ESV
“Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—”
Gal. 3:14 —ESV
“so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.”
the bible speaks of others believing through personal witness
John 1:7 —ESV
“He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him.”
John 17:20 —ESV
“¶ “I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,”
2 Th. 1:10 —ESV
“when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.”
John 4:39 ¶ Many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me all that I ever did.”
It is not that men cannot know truth but that they suppress the truth
Rom. 1:18 —ESV
“¶ For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.”
2Th. 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
Twelve God enables faith through his word
John 6:65 —NIV11-GK
“He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.””
John 6:45 —NIV11-GK
“It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.”
Obviously it must be understood
The law is a school master if man was unable to respond to truth ther law would have no function
Galatians 3:24 (KJV 1900)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.