Provisionist

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fltom

Well-known member
Reformedguy said:
Man does supply the faith/belief in your dumb system which without you cannot be saved. Therefore they meritorious. The more you talk the more you agree with me. Thanks.
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Sorry but scripture contradicts you

Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV)
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

and does not agree with you
 
R

Reformedguy

Well-known member
fltom said:
Sorry but scripture contradicts you

Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV)
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

and does not agree with you
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It actually contradicts you. Faith is a gift. A gift you should thank your creator for.
 
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F

fltom

Well-known member
Manfred said:
Yes, and none of those scripture shows that the faith is man made, devoid of the Spirit of God.

You remain thoroughly refuted.
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It may be a shock to you, but you need to actually present evidence before you can say anything is refuted

This evidence needs to come from scripture



Your problems are

  • you present no evidence - merely showing some did not believe or believe correctly does nothing but show they did not believe or they did not believe correctly
  • You ignored scripture not addressing a single verse
https://forums.carm.org/threads/provisionist.7411/post-569543

You can’t receive the spirit without faith

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Galatians 3:2 (KJV)
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (KJV)
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

  • You confirmed regeneration is through faith
  • You provide no evidence the Spirit irresistibly causes faith in anyone
 
G

guest1

Guest
fltom said:
It may be a shock to you, but you need to actually present evidence before you can say anything is refuted

This evidence needs to come from scripture



Your problems are

  • you present no evidence - merely showing some did not believe or believe correctly does nothing but show they did not believe or they did not believe correctly
  • You ignored scripture not addressing a single verse
https://forums.carm.org/threads/provisionist.7411/post-569543

You can’t receive the spirit without faith

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Galatians 3:2 (KJV)
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (KJV)
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

  • You confirmed regeneration is through faith
  • You provide no evidence the Spirit irresistibly causes faith in anyone
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Its good to see you back. You were greatly missed by a few Calvinists. I became their target in your absence lol. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

They always need someone to target/ pick on / bully / intimidate/ gas light etc................ Good thing you have thick skin :)
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
civic said:
Its good to see you back. You were greatly missed by a few Calvinists. I became their target in your absence lol. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

They always need someone to target/ pick on / bully / intimidate/ gas light etc................ Good thing you have thick skin :)
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Still sowing discord. Interesting!
 
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guest1

Guest
got a mirror........................

you have a PhD in discord.

interesting.............................
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
Manfred said:
I have, and you have been avoiding it like the plague.

None of those scriptures describe a carnal faith born in the mind of man devoid of the Spirit of God.

You are refuted!
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Typical

You addressed nothing

Offering only bald denial

...................................................

t may be a shock to you, but you need to actually present evidence before you can say anything is refuted

This evidence needs to come from scripture



Your problems are

  • you present no evidence - merely showing some did not believe or believe correctly does nothing but show they did not believe or they did not believe correctly
  • You ignored scripture not addressing a single verse
https://forums.carm.org/threads/provisionist.7411/post-569543

You can’t receive the spirit without faith

John 7:38-39 (KJV)
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 2:38 (KJV)
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Galatians 3:2 (KJV)
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (KJV)
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

  • You confirmed regeneration is through faith
  • You provide no evidence the Spirit irresistibly causes faith in anyone
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
civic said:
Its good to see you back. You were greatly missed by a few Calvinists. I became their target in your absence lol. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

They always need someone to target/ pick on / bully / intimidate/ gas light etc................ Good thing you have thick skin :)
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There is something definitely wrong when you can't have a civil discourse based on scripture alone without having attacks made against your person

My own personal view is that lacking a scriptural refutation they attack the man. I have seen it over and over again.

I'm sorry you have had to have been a target of such abuse
 
G

guest1

Guest
fltom said:
There is something definitely wrong when you can't have a civil discourse based on scripture alone without having attacks made against your person

My own personal view is that lacking a scriptural refutation they attack the man. I have seen it over and over again.

I'm sorry you have had to have been a target of such abuse
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Its really no biggie and I don't report them either unlike them. I like you have thick skin and there are more than one way to skin a cat as the saying goes. Its says more about their character than anything else but they are to blind to see it. I don't get intimidated or bullied.

I've dealt with much more intelligent cultists then these guys over my lifetime who actually know how to make arguments and defend their positions unlike these guys who refuse to answer questions and engage in a dialogue about the BIBLE , not the person.
 
G

guest1

Guest
preacher4truth said:
Still sowing discord. Interesting!
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So what, then, is a hyper-Calvinist?

Part of the confusion about this term no doubt arises from the use of the prefix “hyper.” “Hyper” does not refer, as many might think, to enthusiasm or excitement. Rather its basic meaning is along the lines of “excessive or excessively.” You might think of the word hyperactive which means “excessively active.” Hyper- comes from the Greek prefix huper-, which comes from the preposition huper, meaning “over, beyond.” So a hyper-Calvinist is one who goes beyond and over the bounds of what Calvinism teaches (and thus over the bounds of what the Bible teaches). He is excessive in his application of the doctrines. This manifests itself in an over-emphasis of one aspect of God’s character at the expense of another. Hyper-Calvinists emphasize God’s sovereignty but de-emphasize God’s love.challies

You have been refuted once again.

hope this helps !!!
 
G

guest1

Guest
From the Reformed Churches of America !

I mean what would they know right ? 🤣 🤣 🤣

So, what is hyper-Calvinism? Is it a serious error?

We would emphasize, first, that there is such a thing as hyper-Calvinism, though some would deny this. Historically, the name has been applied to those who deny that the command of the gospel to repent and believemust be preached to all who hear the gospel.

A hyper-Calvinist, therefore, is not someone who teaches that in predestination, in the death of Christ in the preaching, and in the work of the Spirit, God loves only the elect and intends only their salvation. That is simply Biblical Calvinism.

Rather a hyper-Calvinist (historically and doctrinally) is someone who, because all are not chosen and redeemed, will not command all who hear the gospel to repent and believe. He is someone who starts from the right premises, but draws the wrong conclusions - who does not believe that "God now commandeth all men every where to repent" (Acts 17:30).

A true hyper-Calvinist, then, is one who believes rightly in sovereign, double predestination and in particular redemption - who denies a universal love of God and a will of God to save all men. Yet he concludes wrongly that because God has determined who will be saved, sent Christ for them only, and gives to them salvation as a free gift, therefore only the elect should be commanded to repent and believe in the preaching of the gospel.

This, we believe, is a serious error. It is an error that effectively destroys both gospel preaching and evangelism - an error that must be avoided.
 
F

fltom

Well-known member
Manfred said:
I have, and you have been avoiding it like the plague.
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It seems you have a problem understanding

Citing examples of those who did not believe or did not believe correctly does nothing at all to support your doctrine that the Holy spirit in some manner must supernaturally instill faith

You need scripture not examples of men who do not believe

and you need to deal with rebuttal not ignore it as you have

Provisionist

Man does supply the faith/belief in your dumb system which without you cannot be saved. Therefore they meritorious. The more you talk the more you agree with me. Thanks. Sorry but scripture contradicts you Romans 4:4-5 (KJV) 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but...
forums.carm.org
 
Predestined

Predestined

Well-known member
civic said:
Its good to see you back. You were greatly missed by a few Calvinists. I became their target in your absence lol. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

They always need someone to target/ pick on / bully / intimidate/ gas light etc................ Good thing you have thick skin :)
Click to expand...
I hear that, they are so predictable it's laughable not to mention childish.
 
Manfred

Manfred

Well-known member
fltom said:
t may be a shock to you, but you need to actually present evidence before you can say anything is refuted
Click to expand...
You are refuted Tom

You failed to address any of the scriptures in the many posts I wrote in rebuttal to your premise regarding a Spiritually dead faith born in the carnal mind.

Now you want to pretend it does not exist and I made it all up.
Go back and read my actual posts and the scriptures given and address them instead of pretending it is a systematic devoid of scriptural proof.

Lets start here:
The word of God (regarding the cross and Spiritual truths) cannot be understood with human wisdom.

Those who are perishing cannot understand the word of the cross. It is folly to them.

You are saying that it is by human wisdom that the word of the cross is understood. Your teaching is that those who are perishing can indeed understand the word of the cross using human wisdom.

The word of cross for those being saved can be understood by those who are being saved, because it is not by human wisdom, but by the Power of God.

1Co 1:18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The world, did not know God through wisdom. To know God is to have faith in God, and it does not come through wisdom. God saves, those whose faith rests in the power of God and not in their own worldly wisdom.

1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles,
1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

Preaching what is folly to man, except those who are called. To them it becomes the Power and wisdom of God and not a faith that comes from the power and wisdom of man.
 
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