ReverendRV
Well-known member
Dang; killed another Thread 
Provisionist
- Thread starter Reformedguy
- Start date
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Why did you have to do it to mine? LolDang; killed another Thread
ReverendRV
Well-known member
I got overwhelmed by P4T's great point; it was like a Salve on the eyes or something. Our Provisionist probably needed to regroup...
It's TomL, so he'll be back...
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preacher4truth
Well-known member
We must always remember all "new" heresies come garbed in some truths. The error of Provisionism isn't found in its SoF, it is found when the proponents begin hashing it out.
Many churches claim Sola Scriptura in their SoF. When they begin teaching, I've seen many go against that. For instance, any that haven't heard will go to heaven. Well, then quit preaching the Gospel, so they will go to heaven, right? Or they teach Romans 1 shows people can get saved by looking at the heavens. If that's the case, doesn't that damn everyone who sees that message, when they were previously headed to heaven because they were ignorant of the Gospel?
Now an example of how Provisionists destroy their SoF. They do this by taking James 4:6 out of context and using it to teach merited grace. "Because I humbled myself, God rewarded me with saving grace. That's what the text is teaching! You reject it! You have no answer! You can't address it" This is when their true beliefs come through and that is exactly what these two do with that text. One of them claims it on here, Flowers claimed it in debate with James White.
That is a damnable heresy, it is works salvation. We don't need a repackaged heresy, we need to contend for the faith once given to the saints, and what we are defending is the Gospel of Grace against the assault.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Do it, I'd like to read it! Provisionism destroys the fact that God, in all three Persons, is active in the salvation of the soul. He always has been, and always will be.
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Well said...
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Believing is not a meritorious action. It is not a work! There is no "respecting of persons" in conditional elections because all are equally welcome to believe and able to believe when convicted and enlightened by the Spirit through the gospel. Any man woman from any nation, of any status is able to believe the gospel!
Doug
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Hey Doug, good to hear from you. Please keep reading; it gets quite interesting...
Reformedguy
Well-known member
It is Doug. You are rewarded for making the right choice.
Theo1689
Well-known member
So we're supposed to blindly accept that "believing is not meritorious", just because you CLAIM it's not?
From dictionary.com:
Meritorious (adj.)
1. deserving praise, reward, esteem, etc.; praiseworthy:
Sounds PRECISELY how one would describe "faith".
Yes, Paul repeatedly contrasted with works. But the faith Paul spoke of is NOT the same faith Arminians believe in. It is the God-given gift that CAUSES (necessarily) the elect to believe. So you can't appeal to Paul when (IMO) he's not referring to what you believe.
You remind me of an old joke, which is based on deflection:
Q: "I have two coins totally 55 cents, and one is not a nickel. What are the two coins?"
A: "One coin is a fifty-cent piece. The OTHER coin is the nickel".
In the same way, you are deflecting away from the meritorious action.
You say "all are equally welcome to believe". If that's your theology, then being "welcome to believe" is not meritorious.
You say "all are able to believe the gospel" (which I don't find Biblical). But if that's your theology, then "being able to believe" is not meritorious.
But then from there, some actually DO believe, and some don't. And if the difference between believing and not believing comes from men, and not God, then it is by definition meritorious.
And that makes God "a respecter of persons".
What does it mean that God is not a respecter of persons?
We have explained that when the Bible says God is not a respecter of persons, this means He does not ignore or change His standards for anyone. The Bible teaches that God knows our thoughts and, consequently, our hearts (Proverbs 15:11; 21:2; Matthew 9:4; Mark 2:8).
What does it mean that God is not a respecter of persons?
The Bible teaches that God is not a respecter of persons. Does this mean that God does not favor Christians and everyone will go to heaven?
www.neverthirsty.org
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Really? You're just going to skip all that other stuff?? It's okay though...What does it mean that God is not a respecter of persons?
We have explained that when the Bible says God is not a respecter of persons, this means He does not ignore or change His standards for anyone. The Bible teaches that God knows our thoughts and, consequently, our hearts (Proverbs 15:11; 21:2; Matthew 9:4; Mark 2:8).
What does it mean that God is not a respecter of persons?
The Bible teaches that God is not a respecter of persons. Does this mean that God does not favor Christians and everyone will go to heaven?
Well I am tired but Theo has I believe been misusing that term for quite a long time and I mentioned it to him previously but
he continues that same use
The idea that if God saves those that believe of themselves and does not save those who do not believe of themselves is respect for persons is convoluted
It is using unequal standards because of some sort of favorable bias toward a person unrelated to the standard which is respect of persons
In any case I left most of the discussion for Doug to respond to
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Not because we did it, but because God promised if we believed. It is God's promise that is effectual not our action. Our actions, in themselves, are meaningless.
Doug
ReverendRV
Well-known member
Happy Thanksgiving!
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Not because we did it but God promised if we did it? Huh?
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TibiasDad
Well-known member
Huh ?
Is this that foreign to you that this is God plan for salvation
1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV)
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Yes, there are two things that must happen before salvation: preaching (the gospel) and believing (the gospel). Both of which, are the responsibility of human agents!
Doug
And that is scripture