Provisionist

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I think not. Deism teaches God is distant and doesn't interfere in the actions of man, nor in the universe. On that basis I think you've made a gaffe.

Leighton teaches all we need is the Gospel while mitigating and virtually eliminated the need for the Spirit is heretical. He laid claim to this in an interview or podcast with Roger Olson. The latter didn't agree with him or respond to that.

We need the Gospel and God, and Christ and the Spirit. All are involved in our rebirth. So what he is saying is absurd, mitigating God, exalting man.
That makes sense. But why would you disagree that Provisionism is like Deism after the Ascension? Do you think it is like Deism before the Ascension too?
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I think not. Deism teaches God is distant and doesn't interfere in the actions of man, nor in the universe. On that basis I think you've made a gaffe.

Leighton teaches all we need is the Gospel while mitigating and virtually eliminated the need for the Spirit is heretical. He laid claim to this in an interview or podcast with Roger Olson. The latter didn't agree with him or respond to that.

We need the Gospel and God, and Christ and the Spirit. All are involved in our rebirth. So what he is saying is absurd, mitigating God, exalting man.
I think your point of Provisionism being like Deism is a crushing blow...
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
Except Arminians and Provisionist do not hold that atonement in itself saves

and hold one must believe to have the blessings of atonement

Now there are universalists who hold atonement of itself saves

So should it be claimed Calvinists use Universalist ideas ?

Of course not

There is no merit in either argument

Tom..... Many different system share various points made in most any theology. I said what I said to make that point. Like it, leave it. It is up to you.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Which is wierd considering Hebrews 1:3 and Acts 17:28
And that's to our benefit too. When Provisionists point Verses like these out, they place themselves back into the Realm of having to believe in Providence, God's Decree and Soft Determinism...

1st Timothy 2:5; For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Colossians 1:17; He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
You can tell I'm going to run with it...

Thanks...
We must always remember all "new" heresies come garbed in some truths. The error of Provisionism isn't found in its SoF, it is found when the proponents begin hashing it out.

Many churches claim Sola Scriptura in their SoF. When they begin teaching, I've seen many go against that. For instance, any that haven't heard will go to heaven. Well, then quit preaching the Gospel, so they will go to heaven, right? Or they teach Romans 1 shows people can get saved by looking at the heavens. If that's the case, doesn't that damn everyone who sees that message, when they were previously headed to heaven because they were ignorant of the Gospel?

Now an example of how Provisionists destroy their SoF. They do this by taking James 4:6 out of context and using it to teach merited grace. "Because I humbled myself, God rewarded me with saving grace. That's what the text is teaching! You reject it! You have no answer! You can't address it" This is when their true beliefs come through and that is exactly what these two do with that text. One of them claims it on here, Flowers claimed it in debate with James White.

That is a damnable heresy, it is works salvation. We don't need a repackaged heresy, we need to contend for the faith once given to the saints, and what we are defending is the Gospel of Grace against the assault.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
We must always remember all "new" heresies come garbed in some truths. The error of Provisionism isn't found in its SoF, it is found when the proponents begin hashing it out.

Many churches claim Sola Scriptura in their SoF. When they begin teaching, I've seen many go against that. For instance, any that haven't heard will go to heaven. Well, then quit preaching the Gospel, so they will go to heaven, right? Or they teach Romans 1 shows people can get saved by looking at the heavens. If that's the case, doesn't that damn everyone who sees that message, when they were previously headed to heaven because they were ignorant of the Gospel?

Now an example of how Provisionists destroy their SoF. They do this by taking James 4:6 out of context and using it to teach merited grace. "Because I humbled myself, God rewarded me with saving grace. That's what the text is teaching! You reject it! You have no answer! You can't address it" This is when their true beliefs come through and that is exactly what these two do with that text. One of them claims it on here, Flowers claimed it in debate with James White.

That is a damnable heresy, it is works salvation. We don't need a repackaged heresy, we need to contend for the faith once given to the saints, and what we are defending is the Gospel of Grace against the assault.
Well said...
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
We must always remember all "new" heresies come garbed in some truths. The error of Provisionism isn't found in its SoF, it is found when the proponents begin hashing it out.

Many churches claim Sola Scriptura in their SoF. When they begin teaching, I've seen many go against that. For instance, any that haven't heard will go to heaven. Well, then quit preaching the Gospel, so they will go to heaven, right? Or they teach Romans 1 shows people can get saved by looking at the heavens. If that's the case, doesn't that damn everyone who sees that message, when they were previously headed to heaven because they were ignorant of the Gospel?

Calvinism believes ignorance is not an excuse. There is no difference in what you describe.

Now an example of how Provisionists destroy their SoF. They do this by taking James 4:6 out of context and using it to teach merited grace. "Because I humbled myself, God rewarded me with saving grace. That's what the text is teaching! You reject it! You have no answer! You can't address it" This is when their true beliefs come through and that is exactly what these two do with that text. One of them claims it on here, Flowers claimed it in debate with James White.

Well Flowers and White are just men. Mistaken men. I suppose you don't follow the words of Peter when he says....

1Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

After all, that would prove you earned something wouldn't?

That is a damnable heresy, it is works salvation. We don't need a repackaged heresy, we need to contend for the faith once given to the saints, and what we are defending is the Gospel of Grace against the assault.

There are many flavors or "works salvation" One of those is when any man claims God is working for him. I.E. Calvinism.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
God being a Respecter of Persons allows for Conditional Election...
Believing is not a meritorious action. It is not a work! There is no "respecting of persons" in conditional elections because all are equally welcome to believe and able to believe when convicted and enlightened by the Spirit through the gospel. Any man woman from any nation, of any status is able to believe the gospel!


Doug
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Believing is not a meritorious action. It is not a work! There is no "respecting of persons" in conditional elections because all are equally welcome to believe and able to believe when convicted and enlightened by the Spirit through the gospel. Any man woman from any nation, of any status is able to believe the gospel!


Doug
Hey Doug, good to hear from you. Please keep reading; it gets quite interesting...
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Believing is not a meritorious action. It is not a work! There is no "respecting of persons" in conditional elections because all are equally welcome to believe and able to believe when convicted and enlightened by the Spirit through the gospel. Any man woman from any nation, of any status is able to believe the gospel!


Doug
It is Doug. You are rewarded for making the right choice.
 
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