Provisionist

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Sorry but you are reporting falsely based on faulty understanding

and a refusal to heed scripture

Romans 4:4-5 (KJV)
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Merit is in Christ

not man
Except your belief/faith. That's how you become to be in Christ right? According to your theology? Lol
 

fltom

Well-known member
Except your belief/faith. That's how you become to be in Christ right? According to your theology? Lol
Do you have a problem with scripture ?

Why do you mock ?

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Do you have a problem with scripture ?

Why do you mock ?

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
How do you become to be in Christ? Let's demonstrate your best try at moving the goal post shall we?
 

fltom

Well-known member
That verse says nothing about being in Christ. So how do you find yourself in Christ?
Once again read

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

the pronoun whom refers to Christ
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Once again read

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

the pronoun whom refers to Christ
Then what follows happens after one is in Christ which you are from the foundation of the world. Amen
 

fltom

Well-known member
Then what follows happens after one is in Christ which you are from the foundation of the world. Amen
Sorry no one is in Christ before the foundation of the earth

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
 

fltom

Well-known member
So we're supposed to blindly accept that "believing is not meritorious", just because you CLAIM it's not?

From dictionary.com:

Meritorious (adj.)
1. deserving praise, reward, esteem, etc.; praiseworthy:

Sounds PRECISELY how one would describe "faith".



Yes, Paul repeatedly contrasted with works. But the faith Paul spoke of is NOT the same faith Arminians believe in. It is the God-given gift that CAUSES (necessarily) the elect to believe. So you can't appeal to Paul when (IMO) he's not referring to what you believe.

You have two problems

When you speak of merit you are claiming that some believe salvation is merited or earned

Faith does not merit salvation

It does not earn salvation

That is completely false

If one could earn his salvation through faith Christ would not have needed to go to the cross

second the bible nowhere teaches a necessitated faith

so your claim

"But the faith Paul spoke of is NOT the same faith Arminians believe in. "

is without biblical support
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Sorry no one is in Christ before the foundation of the earth

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of" note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
It says you were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world.
"For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world" See Ephesians 1:4
 

fltom

Well-known member
It says you were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world.
"For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world" See Ephesians 1:4
Corporate Election of the church to be holy and blameless before him in love

You can't be chosen in Christ if you are not in Christ

that men were not in Christ before the foundation of the earth was clearly shown

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of" note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

by showing men were in Christ at different times

One must consider the whole council of God
 
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fltom

Well-known member
It says you were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world.
"For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world" See Ephesians 1:4
The faithful in Christ (the church) corporately chosen to be holy and blameless before him in love

Men are in Christ in time

You need to consider the whole council of God

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
The faithful in Christ (the church) corporately chosen to be holy and blameless before him in love

Men are in Christ in time

You need to consider the whole council of God

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
It says none of that. It says chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Way to completely avoid Eph. 1:4 Good job
 

fltom

Well-known member
It says none of that. It says chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Way to completely avoid Eph. 1:4 Good job
Read before you post

Men are in Christ in time

You need to consider the whole council of God

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Read before you post

Men are in Christ in time

You need to consider the whole council of God

Romans 16:7 (KJV)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
Oh I agree we are in Christ in time but none the less chosen to be so before the foundation of the world just as it says in the text your avoiding as you typically do.
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
It says you were chosen in Him from the foundation of the world.
"For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world" See Ephesians 1:4

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) According as he hath chosen *us* in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You are correct but the *us* is the libertarian *faithful* (Eph 1:1) that are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.faithfulness is a libertarian/synergistc concept.

Ephesians 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to ...
... **the faithful* in Christ Jesus**:
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) According as he hath chosen *us* in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You are correct but the *us* is the libertarian *faithful* (Eph 1:1) that are chosen in Him before the foundation of the world.faithfulness is a libertarian/synergistc concept.

Ephesians 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to ...
... **the faithful* in Christ Jesus**:
It says libertarian faithful? Which version?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Oh I agree we are in Christ in time but none the less chosen to be so before the foundation of the world just as it says in the text your avoiding as you typically do.
Nope those in Christ are chosen to be holy

The verse says nothing about being chosen to be in Christ

read scripture not your theology
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Nope those in Christ are chosen to be holy

The verse says nothing about being chosen to be in Christ

read scripture not your theology
Sure it does. He chose us in Him from the foundation of the world, In that sentence who is doing the chosing?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Sure it does. He chose us in Him from the foundation of the world, In that sentence who is doing the chosing?
That is a half citiation

I saw where Seth was escouriated for leaving out a portion of a verse

you left off chosen to be holy and blameless before him in love

not chosen to be in Him
 
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