Provisionist

Reformedguy

Well-known member
YeThat is a half citiation

I saw where Seth was escouriated for leaving out a portion of a verse

you left off chosen to be holy and blameless before him in love

not chosen to be in Him
lol, YES THAT IS WHY WE ARE CHOSEN! Who does the chosing in Ephesians 1:4? Lets play dodgeball some more because my money is you will refuse to answer.
 

fltom

Well-known member
lol, YES THAT IS WHY WE ARE CHOSEN! Who does the chosing in Ephesians 1:4? Lets play dodgeball some more because my money is you will refuse to answer.
Again there is nothing in passage which speaks of being chosen to be in Christ

Rather before thev foundation of the earth God determined he would choose the faithful in Christ to be holy and without blame before him in love
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Again there is nothing in passage which speaks of being chosen to be in Christ

Rather before thev foundation of the earth God determined he would choose the faithful in Christ to be holy and without blame before him in love
Ahh... so more merit. lol

Actually they are chosen to be faithful. Their being chosen is not based on their faithfulness. Or is their being faithful have merit?
 

fltom

Well-known member
Ahh... so more merit. lol

Actually they are chosen to be faithful. Their being chosen is not based on their faithfulness. Or is their being faithful have merit?
Again your problem is with scripture

Your theology of unconditional election to salvation and the giving of a gift of effectual irresistible faith

are found no where in scripture

Nothing in the text speaks of being chosen to be faithful

That's your theology not scripture
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Again your problem is with scripture

Your theology of unconditional election to salvation and the giving of a gift of effectual irresistible faith

are found no where in scripture

Nothing in the text speaks of being chosen to be faithful

That's your theology not scripture
You teach merit. You earn salvation by being faithful in Christ. Congrats Like I said you side would be better if you just shut up. I on the other hand prefer you keep digging

Sure it does, see the high priestly prayer in John 17. Who are those given by the Father to the Son to redeem?
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
You teach merit. You earn salvation by being faithful in Christ. Congrats Like I said you side would be better if you just shut up. I on the other hand prefer you keep digging

Sure it does, see the high priestly prayer in John 17. Who are those given by the Father to the Son to redeem?
Prove that faith "merit" is unscriptural. You can't.
 

fltom

Well-known member
I will simply use logic. Something you seem to have a problem.

Where does you faith come from
God has given man the capability for faith

God enables faith through his word

John 6:65 (NIV2011)
65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

Romans 10:17 (NIV2011)
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Man either believes or he does not
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
God has given man the capability for faith

God enables faith through his word

John 6:65 (NIV2011)
65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

Romans 10:17 (NIV2011)
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Man either believes or he does not
Where does the Bible say God has given man the capability to exercise faith that saves.

Man either believes or he does not. If he does, in your system he is rewarded with salvation. He earned it
 

fltom

Well-known member
Where does the Bible say God has given man the capability to exercise faith that saves.

Man either believes or he does not. If he does, in your system he is rewarded with salvation. He earned it
why did God harden men lest they believe

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

If they had no ability to believe

similarly

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Why does Jesus speak of men closing their eyes lest they should see and their heart growing hardened if they were born hardened to start with

if they had no ability to see and born already hardened

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why employ parables to hide truth from those who cannot know it ?

sorry no and mindless repetition does not change the fact salvation cannot be earned

and no one believes that it does
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
why did God harden men lest they believe

John 12:40 (ESV)
40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

If they had no ability to believe

similarly

Acts 28:27 —KJV
“For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.”

Why does Jesus speak of men closing their eyes lest they should see and their heart growing hardened if they were born hardened to start with

if they had no ability to see and born already hardened

Jesus spoke to men in parables to prevent their understanding

Matt. 13:10–14 —KJV
“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:”

Why employ parables to hide truth from those who cannot know it ?

sorry no and mindless repetition does not change the fact salvation cannot be earned

and no one believes that it does
Good effort at distraction. I guess if they did believe they would merit their salvation?

Provisionist = God provides the means, man provides the ends.
 

fltom

Well-known member
Good effort at distraction. I guess if they did believe they would merit their salvation?

Provisionist = God provides the means, man provides the ends.
Parading your ignorance again

There was no distraction

if they had no ability to believe why is God blinding them to prevent belief

Your comments make no sense and are nothing but repeat falsehoods

coming from a lack of understanding ande a desire to mock what you don't understand
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Parading your ignorance again

There was no distraction

if they had no ability to believe why is God blinding them to prevent belief

Your comments make no sense and are nothing but repeat falsehoods

coming from a lack of understanding ande a desire to mock what you don't understand
And I will keep repeating the for the lurkers sake.

Provisionst position: God merely provides the means and man MUST provide the ends. Hence the term provision. Feel free lurkers to check for yourself.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
And I will keep repeating the for the lurkers sake.

Provisionst position: God merely provides the means and man MUST provide the ends. Hence the term provision. Feel free lurkers to check for yourself.
That's how it is when discussing with TomL; just riding the See-Saw...
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
That's how it is when discussing with TomL; just riding the See-Saw...
His position is right in the name of his stupid movement. Provision. What does it mean to make provision? It's so obvious. He is scared of the only logical conclusion you can reach when examining choice meatism. It's warmed over RCC theology minis a pope.
 
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