QAnon and C. S. Lewis

Up until Jan 6, 2021 I had never given a moments notice to anything called QAnon. On Jan 6 2021 I captured a bunch of images of the Q Shaman because I am a photographer. The Q Shaman is obviously aware of how to draw attention with his eye grabbing costume. His image is kind of an icon of the Jan 6 2021 event.

It is very difficult to find an accurate prototype of the QAnon doctrine. I read some articles today which attempted to explain it but most of them were typical media delusions about QAnon as enemies of humanity. Useless since the person writing the article is more delusional than the people they are trying to describe.

When secular people try to describe religious people they always get it wrong. The QAnon worldview ends up looking very much like what C. S. Lewis portrays in his novel: That Hideous Strength. I realize that QAnon isn't a "healthy" worldview. But it is just one of many unhealthy worldviews some of them with billions of followers. We have people running the world who have delusional thinking. They are in the news every day. Washington DC has a high concentration of them.
 
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Temujin

Well-known member
Up until Jan 6, 2021 I had never given a moments notice to anything called QAnon. On Jan 6 2021 I captured a bunch of images of the Q Shaman because I am a photographer. The Q Shaman is obviously aware of how to draw attention with his eye grabbing costume. His image is kind of an icon of the Jan 6 2021 event.

It is very difficult to find an accurate prototype of the QAnon doctrine. I read some articles today which attempted to explain it but most of them were typical media delusions about QAnon as enemies of humanity. Useless since the person writing the article is more delusional than the people they are trying to describe.

When secular people try to describe religious people they always get it wrong. The QAnon worldview ends up looking very much like what C. S. Lewis portrays in his novel: That Hideous Strength. I realize that QAnon isn't a "healthy" worldview. But it is just one of many unhealthy worldviews some of them with billions of followers. We have people running the world who have delusional thinking. They are in the news every day. Washington DC has a high concentration of them.
It's OK. The Republicans aren't ruling the world. They aren't even ruling America anymore.
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
Up until Jan 6, 2021 I had never given a moments notice to anything called QAnon. On Jan 6 2021 I captured a bunch of images of the Q Shaman because I am a photographer. The Q Shaman is obviously aware of how to draw attention with his eye grabbing costume. His image is kind of an icon of the Jan 6 2021 event.

It is very difficult to find an accurate prototype of the QAnon doctrine. I read some articles today which attempted to explain it but most of them were typical media delusions about QAnon as enemies of humanity. Useless since the person writing the article is more delusional than the people they are trying to describe.

When secular people try to describe religious people they always get it wrong. The QAnon worldview ends up looking very much like what C. S. Lewis portrays in his novel: That Hideous Strength. I realize that QAnon isn't a "healthy" worldview. But it is just one of many unhealthy worldviews some of them with billions of followers. We have people running the world who have delusional thinking. They are in the news every day. Washington DC has a high concentration of them.
I know what you mean, Stirling.

I had heard about QAnon a little, and kind of ignored it thinking it was just some extreme alt-right thing. But a story on the radio today had me scared. People who believe that crap are still out there. I know Temujin is right, they don't rule America any more, and for that I am glad. But they did for 4 years, and they have done so much damage.

I don't understand why so many people -- especially people on the right -- seem to eat that stuff up. Can you help me understand this?
 
This was written while waiting for the rain to let up. It hasn't let up. This isn't a response to anyone. No response had arrived when I wrote this,

While taking a look at what people are saying about QAnon I am irritated by the language that people use. The expressions far-right and conspiracy theory are throwaway words that have become devoid of all meaning. The rhetoric aimed at this belief system is weaponized speech intended to inflict damage. It certainly doesn't count as intelligent discourse. That seems to have come to an end in the public square after Trump won the election. I have observed more hate coming from the fashionable left in the last four years than I have ever experienced in my contact with Paleo-nazis from the Third Reich. I used to walk with a Luftwaffe veteran who I met after being told by a neighbor he was a German with out regrets. We would frequently run into each other and he would tell me his story about the war and what it was like to grow up in Hitlerjugend in the '30s. I treated him with respect. After the war he spent an extra year in a POW camp in England because he refused to denounce his heritage. After he got out he married a british woman and moved to America. His stories about what happen in Europe were childhood experiences. He was 19 years old when he was released from the POW camp. He had no complaints about his treatment from the British. He wouldn't lie to them in order to get out. So he had his 19th birthday in the camp. I had been a WWII history reader since grade school. If I kept my mouth shut and let him talk, i heard stories from an eye withess about things you will not find in books. I had already read the books, hundreds of them. William L. Shirer, Albert F. Speer. Leon Uris an endless stream of them. Talking to an eyewitness was an extraordinary opportunity. I walked with him the last day of his conscious life. The sun was out and the wind was raising whitecaps on Puget Sound. The Olympics were covered with snow. He was optimistic and walked with a spring in his step like a young man. I hadn't seen him for several weeks and he had a lot to tell me.
 
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I know what you mean, Stirling.

I had heard about QAnon a little, and kind of ignored it thinking it was just some extreme alt-right thing. But a story on the radio today had me scared. People who believe that crap are still out there. I know Temujin is right, they don't rule America any more, and for that I am glad. But they did for 4 years, and they have done so much damage.

I don't understand why so many people -- especially people on the right -- seem to eat that stuff up. Can you help me understand this?

People have been lied to for so long that anything seems possible. I stopped reading the printed news media in the 1970s because it was so disgusting. All the lies that came out of Washington DC during Vietnam and nothing has changed with regard to finding out the truth about anything. Does anyone know what really happened at Waco? Why did all those people die? Does anyone want to tell me why America spends more money killing people than keeping them alive. I am waiting for an answer, Lawrence Ferlingetti is still waiting for an answer.
 
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grand narratives that seek to prove that powerful actors are secretly controlling events and institutions for evil purposes

This is a quote from a baptist pastor responding to QAnon. LIke I said before. C.S. Lewis published a novel in '43 which is founded on the notion "that powerful actors are secretly controlling events and institutions for evil purposes." Read the novel. Is someone going to claim that C. S. Lewis was a crackpot? What exatly is problematic about the idea highlighted? This person is called in the NT "the ruler of this world."
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
This is a quote from a baptist pastor responding to QAnon. LIke I said before. C.S. Lewis published a novel in '43 which is founded on the notion "that powerful actors are secretly controlling events and institutions for evil purposes." Read the novel. Is someone going to claim that C. S. Lewis was a crackpot? What exatly is problematic about the idea highlighted? This person is called in the NT "the ruler of this world."
I am sure it is not deliberate, but it reads as though that quote is from Lewis' book. In fact it was in a report about QAnon by Katelyn Beaty.
See here: https://www.churchandculture.org/blog/2020/8/27/qanon

Lewis was not a crackpot, he was a fiction writer.
 
This isn't a response to the most recent post. I haven't even seen it.

The official narrative about Jan 6 2021 and QAnon looks like preparation for the next Waco. First you demonize people and then you kill them, Wash DC planning to murder 74 million people? Is it a thought crime to believe that JFK was put into office by Mayor Richard Daley? Is that irrational? Only crackpots think that election was stolen? The more often the official narrative is shoved in our face for the less credible it becomes. Four years of Trump Derangement Syndrome those of us who voted independent in 2016 are really tired of hearing about this guy from people who have a neurotic fixation on a man which leads to explicit expressions of raw hatred, It's toxic for everyone not least those doing the hating.
 
I am sure it is not deliberate, but it reads as though that quote is from Lewis' book. In fact it was in a report about QAnon by Katelyn Beaty.
See here: https://www.churchandculture.org/blog/2020/8/27/qanon

Lewis was not a crackpot, he was a fiction writer.
Yes my framing of it was a little bit confusing. It's 3am and I haven't had dinner.

Lewis wrote two books. The Aoblition of Man was the explanation of the big idea and That Hideous Strength was a fictional narrative which shows the consequences of that idea. There is a conspiracy in the fiction and it is understood as such by people with insight just the opposite of what people are saying about QAnon. It isn't the crack pots who understand what the NICE represents.
 

Komodo

Active member
This isn't a response to the most recent post. I haven't even seen it.

The official narrative about Jan 6 2021 and QAnon looks like preparation for the next Waco. First you demonize people and then you kill them,
So far as I can tell, the dynamic is:
1) People calling themselves part of the QAnon movement, e.g. people putting WWG1WGA on their Twitter bios, repeatedly insist that Hillary Clinton and Bill Gates and Tom Hanks and thousands of others are all pedophiles and baby-eaters, and that a day of reckoning is coming soon in which they will all get tried and executed by the thousands for these crimes, and it had better come soon or else the Patriots who are in the know will have to take things into their own hands IYKWIM&ITYD.
2) People outside of this say this is delusional and dangerous.
3) You insist the danger is from the people saying this is delusional and dangerous, because this is "demonizing," and it is intended to lead to the killing of tens of millions.

So if I say that this accusation of "demonizing" in preparation for mass killing is itself delusional and dangerous, does that mean that I must be part of the plot, probably one of the baby-eaters?

... Wash DC planning to murder 74 million people?
When people scream "YOU WANT TO KILL ME! YOU WANT TO KILL US ALL!" for no observable reason, it can be reasonably be suspected that the murderous thoughts belong to them, not to us.

Is it a thought crime to believe that JFK was put into office by Mayor Richard Daley? Is that irrational? Only crackpots think that election was stolen?
There have been cases in which a good case can be made that election fraud affected the outcome. Therefore, any claim made by anybody about any such fraud must be taken seriously, no matter how divorced from actual evidence? No, that's nonsense.

Four years of Trump Derangement Syndrome those of us who voted independent in 2016 are really tired of hearing about this guy from people who have a neurotic fixation on a man which leads to explicit expressions of raw hatred, It's toxic for everyone not least those doing the hating.
Suppose you come back in, say, 72 hours, with links to the five most deranged and toxic expressions of hatred for Trump, from liberals or Democrats in some position of power or influence, and I'll provide links to the five most deranged and toxic expressions of hatred for liberals or Democrats, from Trump or his supporters in some position of power or influence. Then we'll see who beats who at "raw hatred."
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
So far as I can tell, the dynamic is:
1) People calling themselves part of the QAnon movement, e.g. people putting WWG1WGA on their Twitter bios, repeatedly insist that Hillary Clinton and Bill Gates and Tom Hanks and thousands of others are all pedophiles and baby-eaters, and that a day of reckoning is coming soon in which they will all get tried and executed by the thousands for these crimes, and it had better come soon or else the Patriots who are in the know will have to take things into their own hands IYKWIM&ITYD.
2) People outside of this say this is delusional and dangerous.
3) You insist the danger is from the people saying this is delusional and dangerous, because this is "demonizing," and it is intended to lead to the killing of tens of millions.

So if I say that this accusation of "demonizing" in preparation for mass killing is itself delusional and dangerous, does that mean that I must be part of the plot, probably one of the baby-eaters?


When people scream "YOU WANT TO KILL ME! YOU WANT TO KILL US ALL!" for no observable reason, it can be reasonably be suspected that the murderous thoughts belong to them, not to us.


There have been cases in which a good case can be made that election fraud affected the outcome. Therefore, any claim made by anybody about any such fraud must be taken seriously, no matter how divorced from actual evidence? No, that's nonsense.


Suppose you come back in, say, 72 hours, with links to the five most deranged and toxic expressions of hatred for Trump, from liberals or Democrats in some position of power or influence, and I'll provide links to the five most deranged and toxic expressions of hatred for liberals or Democrats, from Trump or his supporters in some position of power or influence. Then we'll see who beats who at "raw hatred."
Komodo, you are far more calm about this than I am. Thank you for your reasoned response.
 
I have not bothered to do any serious research on the QAnon cult so I cannot speak about their doctrine. I don't take cults seriously enough to do the work of people like Matt Slick. I am thankful that other people have taken the time to do research on the groups with aberrations in their world view. This is a valuable work.

I considered the Jan 6 2021 WashDC event something like Woodstock. Nowhere near as violent as BLM or Antifa. Nothing on the order of Chicago August '68. QAnon isn't going to take over anything. Jan 6 2021 WashDC is a Reichstag Fire. It was 99.9% a festival of Trump fans. So what? The shooting death of the woman was what happens when law enforcement gets out of hand. People die like this all the time. She was white so nobody cares.

The left is in a contiual state of manic hysteria over fringe groups which have zero impact on life in america while overlooking genuine threats like BLM Antifa.
 
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John t

Super Member
grand narratives that seek to prove that powerful actors are secretly controlling events and institutions for evil purposes
This is a quote from a baptist pastor responding to QAnon. LIke I said before. C.S. Lewis published a novel in '43 which is founded on the notion "that powerful actors are secretly controlling events and institutions for evil purposes." Read the novel. Is someone going to claim that C. S. Lewis was a crackpot? What exatly is problematic about the idea highlighted? This person is called in the NT "the ruler of this world."
Pardon the slight derail. it is a parallel comment more than anything

But there are other groups such as Mormons having an established "us versus them" philosophy. They believe in "secret combinations" and of groups like the "Gadianton Robbers" who sow mayhem among the faithful

I cannot speak authoritatively about groups such as Freemasons. However, it stands to reason that when in 1830 or so when Smith first published the Book of Mormon, and that it is obvious to anyone who can search on the Internet that many of the rites of Mormonism are word-for-word identical to the rites of the Lodge, and that the need for secret identification during the "after life" that booth groups share the same conspiracy theories.

They share the same "secret handshakes" to "hide themselves " and to keep out the ones not knowing the special hand grasps.

1612120155346.png
 

John t

Super Member
I am not an expert on Free Masonry, but the similarities between the Mormons and Masons cannot be ignored. More to the point, if anyone stated, "I know that my group is correct, and not the other group (fill in the blanks here) then by definition, BOTH groups have false signs and secret handshakes. It cannot be that the one group, say the Masons is correct, but the other group's (say the Mormons) hand signs are incorrect or bogus because they both are identical to the other.

So while I am not attempting to change the discussion to Masons vs. Mormons, the similarities between both should be explored further if this discussion is permitted to continue. The ultimate issue is consistency vs inconsistency
 

Komodo

Active member
I have not bothered to do any serious research on the QAnon cult so I cannot speak about their doctrine.
You explicitly claimed that QAnon was being deliberately "demonized" in the "official narrative" as part of a plan to have them (and maybe all Trump voters) murdered. I asked if you had any example of such demonizing, because I had plenty of examples of literal demonizing in the opposite direction: things that QAnoners and the right in general say about liberals and Democrats. Again, do you? If you don't, then there's no reason to take your claim seriously.

And it's worse than that, because your accusation is a monstrous libel, or it would be if you actually specified who is writing the "official narrative" in hope of justifying mass murder. I think we can all guess it includes the Washington Post, the New York Times, CNN, the usual suspects, who are working on behalf of Biden, Pelosi and their shadowy masters. That at least is the usual story among people who talk about "official narratives" and so on. Now if you are right about how "demonization" is something which implicitly justifies mass murder, indeed something which is used deliberately for that purpose, you have now implicitly justified the mass murder of all the people you think of as responsible for the "official narrative"; and you are utterly oblivious to this.

I considered the Jan 6 2021 WashDC event something like Woodstock. Nowhere near as violent as BLM or Antifa. Nothing on the order of Chicago August '68.
People came to Woodstock to listen to music and get stoned. People went to the Capitol to prevent the Congress of the United States from performing its constitutional duty to tally the electoral votes for president, which is an indispensable part of our system of government, because they wanted to stop that process so that their savior, Donald Trump, could remain in office. They said this. Repeatedly. Explicitly. Proudly. On video and social media. They compared themselves, not to the hippies of 1968, but to the patriots of 1776, i.e., people seeking to use violence to drive out the current, illegitimate government. They did this repeatedly, explicitly, proudly, on video and social media. They viciously attacked people who got in their way, and some sought out specific enemies to kill, like Nancy Pelosi; much of this is on video.

It's uncanny how many parallels there are to Woodstock, isn't it?

QAnon isn't going to take over anything.
A loosely led rabble coming out of a beer hall isn't going to take over anything.

And it's not just QAnon who's taking or justifying these actions, it's a large share of the Republican Party. It's evangelical Christian ministers who are saying that liberals and Democrats are traitors to the United States seeking a communist dictatorship and the reign of Satan. I provided a number of those quotes, and I could give more. So -- again -- if "demonization" gets you mass murder, what are we looking at there?

Jan 6 2021 WashDC is a Reichstag Fire.
So now it wasn't an innocent little festival which maybe got a little bit rowdy, it was an act so awful it naturally shocks the sensibilities of all who see it, used by the governing party to justify their treacherous plan to scrap the constitution, remove all freedom, and make the ruler absolute. Because that's what the Reichstag Fire was. You're forgetting one minor detail: who the governing party was on Jan 6 2021. More significantly, you're overlooking the very obvious fact that there has been no attempt at all on the part of the incoming administration to do anything remotely of the sort. (Or is this just evidence of how devious the plotters are?)

Do you imagine that merely by saying the magic words, "Reichstag Fire," without the slightest scrap of fact or logic connecting current events to that event, you are really establishing anything? That by saying it "is" a Reichstag Fire -- not that it might be, or could be, but it is, that's just unquestionable fact -- that it becomes unquestionable fact?
 

John t

Super Member
You explicitly claimed that QAnon was being deliberately "demonized" in the "official narrative" as part of a plan to have them (and maybe all Trump voters) murdered. I asked if you had any example of such demonizing, because I had plenty of examples of literal demonizing in the opposite direction: things that QAnoners and the right in general say about liberals and Democrats. Again, do you? If you don't, then there's no reason to take your claim seriously.
Since this thread is only one page, and there is only one usage of the word "demonized" in the entire thread, which is in YOUR post, that claim cannot be substantiated. Sorry to spoil your FALSE narrative.

If that word was used by the other poster in another thread, then you are obligated by the rules here to copy it, and to post it here, with proper references. Otherwise, you are making an allegation that has no basis in fact.
 

Komodo

Active member
Since this thread is only one page, and there is only one usage of the word "demonized" in the entire thread, which is in YOUR post, that claim cannot be substantiated. Sorry to spoil your FALSE narrative.

If that word was used by the other poster in another thread, then you are obligated by the rules here to copy it, and to post it here, with proper references. Otherwise, you are making an allegation that has no basis in fact.
"Demonize" is in post #8, the post I first responded to. If this were an academic paper I would have been careful to put "demonize[d]" in the quote.

A more reliable way of searching would be to request demoniz , which would give you hits for demonize, demonized and demonization.
 

John t

Super Member
"Demonize" is in post #8, the post I first responded to. If this were an academic paper I would have been careful to put "demonize[d]" in the quote.

A more reliable way of searching would be to request demoniz , which would give you hits for demonize, demonized and demonization.
Obviously...
I relied on the "find" command in my browser. The dang computer was correct, but the input was not. Hence the confusion, and my false statement. :(
 

HillsboroMom

Active member
I considered the Jan 6 2021 WashDC event something like Woodstock. Nowhere near as violent as BLM or Antifa.
This is factually incorrect.

(1) BLM activists did not cause any violence. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

BLM organizers told their people NOT to commit ANY acts of violence. They were instructed in means of PEACEFUL protest only, and told to leave if and when violence broke out. And they did leave as soon as violence started. Violence was caused by other people, not BLM activists. Sometimes those other people were police officers. Sometimes those other people were left-wing extremists like Antifa. Sometimes those other people were right-wing extremists like white supremacists or neo-nazis. Most often, they were individuals not associated with any movement at all, but just bad eggs -- thugs and hoodlums who saw an opportunity to wreak havoc, and took it. Sadly, some of those thugs even wore clothing with BLM slogans on them, but were not associated with the movement at all. They had not been part of the BLM trainings, and did not associate with the movement in any way. They were just trouble-makers. And sadder still, many white people blame BLM for their behavior.

When a cop kills someone without good cause, it's "a few bad apples," but when a black man behaves badly, all of a sudden he represents the whole race.

But yeah, you're not racist. I get it. Some of your best friends are black, right?

(2) Antifa clashes caused 2 deaths. 1/3 as many as the DC event. They also caused a lot of physical damage. This is their MO -- to create property damage. They are less interested in physical violence against people, and more interested in creating confusion. Not that that is okay. If you add up all the damage in all the protests across the country over 5 months that was directly caused by a member of Antifa, I'm sure it was millions, maybe even billions of dollars of property damage. They are the ones who were responsible for some of the literal dumpster fires, as well as some of the figurative ones. (Not all of them -- the police caused some of them when their smoke bomb cartridges ignited debris.)

BTW, when Antifa first started showing up to these things, I bought their narrative that they were just "anti-fascist," and that if you're not "anti-fa" then you're just "fa," or fascist. Then I did my homework and read up on them, and discovered that they believe the ends justify the means, and if that means violence or even murder, then that's what they have to do. I disagree with them.

However, keep a few things in mind, when comparing Antifa to the right-wing-nuts who descended on the capitol:
(a) When Antifa attacked buildings, they went through the building first to make sure the building was empty. Their goal was to cause property damage, and they wanted to minimize personal injury. Compare this to the 1/6 attack, where the attackers were specifically targeting individual members of congress, some of them by name. Some of them called out for Pence and threatened to kill him. Our Vice President. This alone would get you the death sentence.
(b) Antifa causes property damage to businesses at night, when owners, shoppers, and other citizens are gone from the building. The 1/6 terrorists raided the capitol in the middle of the day, during a work day, when hundreds of people were present and busy at work, when they knew those people were busy and at work. It was their express intent to disrupt the work that was going on that day.
(c) As I said, if you add up all the damage Antifa did over the course of the summer, it's pretty steep. The highest estimates I've seen so far is $2 billion. That averages out to about $13 million per day. This will be paid out by insurance companies across the country. The cost of one day of rioting at the capitol on 1/6 was over $500 million. That will be paid by you and me, taxpayers. So when you have taxes taken out of your paychecks for the next few years, make sure you thank those people for attacking the capitol!
(d) Antifa targets primarily chain stores. Large businesses that have plenty of money and large insurance policies. In Portland, they attacked a Walmart and a Starbucks, and left a mom-and-pop pet store in between alone. The nut-cases from 1/6 targeted THE U.S. GOVERNMENT. It was an attack on our country, as much as Pearl Harbor or 9/11 was. They are no better than any other terrorist.

For ANYONE to think those men and women were some kind of "heroes" makes me ill. For a Christian to make that claim is doubly disgusting.
 
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