Question about forum interaction

fltom said:
works does not mean determine

rather he works things to an end according to the purpose of his will

it is not the same as determining every step

God had a plan to reach the world through the jews

many however turned out unfaithful so he used their unfaithfulness to accomplish his plan. he did not determine their unfaithfulness
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"Works out", you left "out" out. Purposely no doubt. "All things", does all mean all without exception?
 
Reformedguy said:
"Works out", you left "out" out. Purposely no doubt. "All things", does all mean all without exception?
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where did you deal with the example

Where did you deal with the fact works is not determine

you have first got to show the word speaks of determination before you ever ask what all things mean

then you can deal with your double standard of denying that meaning in many passages where it would be unfavorable to Calvinism but wanting to affirm it where you deem it favorable
 
fltom said:
where did you deal with the example

Where did you deal with the fact works is not determine

you have first got to show the word speaks of determination before you ever ask what all things mean

then you can deal with your double standard of denying that meaning in many passages where it would be unfavorable to Calvinism but wanting to affirm it where you deem it favorable
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My point stands until addressed. Thank you
 
Reformedguy said:
My point stands until addressed. Thank you
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Sorry all you have is assumption

where did you deal with the example

Where did you deal with the fact works is not determine

you have first got to show the word speaks of determination before you ever ask what all things mean

then you can deal with your double standard of denying that meaning in many passages where it would be unfavorable to Calvinism but wanting to affirm it where you deem it favorable

it was dealt with
 
fltom said:
Sorry all you have is assumption

where did you deal with the example

Where did you deal with the fact works is not determine

you have first got to show the word speaks of determination before you ever ask what all things mean

then you can deal with your double standard of denying that meaning in many passages where it would be unfavorable to Calvinism but wanting to affirm it where you deem it favorable

it was dealt with
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"works out ALL THINGS according to the council of HIS WILL".
 
Reformedguy said:
Wrong. Read 2 Samuel 24. Ultimately it was God. Satan was used much like he was with Job. Good one
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Wrong causing is not permitting. Satan was the cause and satan was permitted to act by God. You blame God for things of evil, sin. God does not tempt anyone to do evil. Learn your Bible and how to understand it and discern truth from a lie.

James 1:13- Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
 
Reformedguy said:
Did God determine David number Israel, a sin. In fact move him to do so?
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Determine no i think not

1 Chronicles 21:1 (KJV) — 1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.



2sam 24:1
1. again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah—“Again” carries us back to the former tokens of His wrath in the three years’ famine [2 Sa 21:1]. God, though He cannot tempt any man (Jam 1:13), is frequently described in Scripture as doing what He merely permits to be done; and so, in this case, He permitted Satan to tempt David. Satan was the active mover, while God only withdrew His supporting grace, and the great tempter prevailed against the king. (See Ex 7:13; 1 Sa 26:19; 2 Sa 16:10; Ps 105:25; Is 7:17, &c.). The order was given to Joab, who, though not generally restrained by religious scruples, did not fail to present, in strong terms (see on 1 Ch 21:3), the sin and danger of this measure. He used every argument to dissuade the king from his purpose. The sacred history has not mentioned the objections which he and other distinguished officers urged against it in the council of David. But it expressly states that they were all overruled by the inflexible resolution of the king.

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 1; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 210.
 
fltom said:
Determine no i think not

1 Chronicles 21:1 (KJV) — 1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.



2sam 24:1
1. again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah—“Again” carries us back to the former tokens of His wrath in the three years’ famine [2 Sa 21:1]. God, though He cannot tempt any man (Jam 1:13), is frequently described in Scripture as doing what He merely permits to be done; and so, in this case, He permitted Satan to tempt David. Satan was the active mover, while God only withdrew His supporting grace, and the great tempter prevailed against the king. (See Ex 7:13; 1 Sa 26:19; 2 Sa 16:10; Ps 105:25; Is 7:17, &c.). The order was given to Joab, who, though not generally restrained by religious scruples, did not fail to present, in strong terms (see on 1 Ch 21:3), the sin and danger of this measure. He used every argument to dissuade the king from his purpose. The sacred history has not mentioned the objections which he and other distinguished officers urged against it in the council of David. But it expressly states that they were all overruled by the inflexible resolution of the king.

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 1; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 210.
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Exactly they blaspheme God according to James 1:13. No wonder Luther wanted that book out of the Bible it counters every Reformed false teaching.
 
fltom said:
James 1:13 along with other verses is contrary to their belief God determines all things (sin included)
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Yes we see its contrary to sound teaching having their ears tickled. It is the last days with these unsound doctrines of demons.
 
fltom said:
Determine no i think not

1 Chronicles 21:1 (KJV) — 1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.



2sam 24:1
1. again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah—“Again” carries us back to the former tokens of His wrath in the three years’ famine [2 Sa 21:1]. God, though He cannot tempt any man (Jam 1:13), is frequently described in Scripture as doing what He merely permits to be done; and so, in this case, He permitted Satan to tempt David. Satan was the active mover, while God only withdrew His supporting grace, and the great tempter prevailed against the king. (See Ex 7:13; 1 Sa 26:19; 2 Sa 16:10; Ps 105:25; Is 7:17, &c.). The order was given to Joab, who, though not generally restrained by religious scruples, did not fail to present, in strong terms (see on 1 Ch 21:3), the sin and danger of this measure. He used every argument to dissuade the king from his purpose. The sacred history has not mentioned the objections which he and other distinguished officers urged against it in the council of David. But it expressly states that they were all overruled by the inflexible resolution of the king.

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 1; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 210.
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"and He moved David against them" . Thank you
 
Theophilus said:
Wrong causing is not permitting. Satan was the cause and satan was permitted to act by God. You blame God for things of evil, sin. God does not tempt anyone to do evil. Learn your Bible and how to understand it and discern truth from a lie.

James 1:13- Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.
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So God is the sufficient cause by allowing Satan to tempt him. So God does tempt no man. Satan did and does.
 
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