Question for Catholics....

Bonnie

Super Member
A Catholic on here wrote this to me:

Perfect knowledge of and profession of Christian doctrine is not essential to salvation. Catholics have never claimed that the Church possessed a perfect grasp of revealed Truth from day one, nor have Catholics ever maintained that the Church knew everything there was to know about revealed Truth from day one.

To which I responded:

Let me ask you this: Could a Catholic deny Mary's PV and IC, believing her to be a sinner like everyone else and in need of salvation, who had children with her lawful husband, Joseph, after Jesus' birth--and still remain a Catholic in good standing, who would be allowed to participate in the Mass and Communion?

So, could a Catholic answer this question of mine, please? Is believing this stuff about Mary essential for salvation in the RCC? Thanks.
 

pilgrim

Well-known member
We defer matters of doctrine/dogma to the Church, since that is its role, not ours. I don't think, once something has been defined, that one can deny it and be in good standing. That is different from not understanding. We can accept without fully understanding.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
We defer matters of doctrine/dogma to the Church, since that is its role, not ours. I don't think, once something has been defined, that one can deny it and be in good standing. That is different from not understanding. We can accept without fully understanding.
Okay, thanks for answering, but isn't it necessary for Catholics to believe in Mary's IC and PV? Isn't that actual doctrine?
 

balshan

Well-known member
We defer matters of doctrine/dogma to the Church, since that is its role, not ours. I don't think, once something has been defined, that one can deny it and be in good standing. That is different from not understanding. We can accept without fully understanding.
So in all that mumbo jumbo you are saying you MUST believe the Marian doctrines to be saved?
 

balshan

Well-known member
Could one RC post the exact words as they like to put it where scripture says one must believe the Marian doctrines to be saved. I mean not one apostles wrote about Mary, not one prayed to her. Their focus for salvation was Jesus and the gospel message. Nowhere do they preach Mary and the Mary gospel at all.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
Could one RC post the exact words as they like to put it where scripture says one must believe the Marian doctrines to be saved. I mean not one apostles wrote about Mary, not one prayed to her. Their focus for salvation was Jesus and the gospel message. Nowhere do they preach Mary and the Mary gospel at all.
Dogmas in the RCC do not need to have scriptural support. They may warp, wrest and twist Scripture to salve the consciences of their sheeple, but when you get right down to it, it's "Rome said it, I (must) believe it, that settles it for me!"

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
 

balshan

Well-known member
Dogmas in the RCC do not need to have scriptural support. They may warp, wrest and twist Scripture to salve the consciences of their sheeple, but when you get right down to it, it's "Rome said it, I (must) believe it, that settles it for me!"

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
But they keep demanding we provide the exact words. I know Rome saying it does not make it true.
 

balshan

Well-known member
So Paul was wrong when the jailer asked 'what must i do to be saved?' And Paul replied 'believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.' He left out a whole pile of stuff. Was he right or wrong?
He didn't mention works, he didn't mention Peter, he didn't mention baptism, he didn't mention prayers to Mary and other saints, he didn't mention bowing before statues.
 

Misfit

Active member
So, could a Catholic answer this question of mine, please? Is believing this stuff about Mary essential for salvation in the RCC? Thanks.
I can only answer your question this way. Mary as the Mother of God I am all in on and believe totally, and I can also believe in the Immaculate Conception with no problem - both of those make sense to me. The other two, her PV and Assumption do not really concern me one way or the other.
 
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