Question for Everyone: The Atheist's "Burden of Refutation"

Tiburon

Well-known member
yea sure, but only if it is a different language,,, seriously Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
Well I understand the above as it is given ? God never gave us His Word to NOT be understood... Psalm 119:18 - 34, Luke 24:45
It was written thousands of years ago and was a product of it's time. What it meant to the ancient Hebrews is vastly different to the literal approach of many of today's Christians.
 

5wize

Well-known member
Ok.
So, you should have no problem with explaining it.

What does Paul say about this in Romans 10, and 1 Corinthians 1:18-29?
Who cares what Paul says about it. We have a real world to interface and learn from and Paul's ancient spiritual inventions and opinions are of no consequence to it.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Gotten on my knees and asked him for help.
Ok.

Of course, you will come up with a million legalistic excuses to claim I "didn't do it right".
Yeah, this doesn't help you here.
Are you prepared to explain in detail what the situations were, or do you think that your failure to get the help you wanted is proof that YHVH doesn't exist?

Because your statement above isn't proof that YHVH isn't real and christianity doesn't work.
It does however raise numerous questions.

Biblical christianity itself is not legalistic.
Man made religious beliefs however are.

So, the first thought that comes to mind here is what you think biblical christianity is and consists of?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Considering the number of people that have tried your religion and found nothing, it's reasonable to conclude that either your religion has nothing to offer or you're giving people false information.
This is the very worst possible excuse you could possibly conceive to give.

When you stand before God to answer for your life, the one question he will never ask you is why others failed.

He will ask you-- why did you not follow Jesus?

Not Tom, not John, not Dave, Sam, Sally, or Judy.

YOU.

Each and every single one of us will give an account for ourselves and our lives and choices to God after we die.

If you actually tell him that you didn't bother because others failed,.... 🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️🤦🏾‍♂️
Literally the very worst excuse to give.

Do you actually want to blame the failures of others for your own failures?

There are hundreds of millions of people who are following Jesus and they have and are experiencing great success in following Jesus.

Peter describes exactly how we can experience success in our lives as followers of Jesus.

2Pe 1:10-11 WEB 10 Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied with the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Then, John, in his first letter gives a detailed explanation for how we can ensure that we actually know YHVH and have eternal life.

1Jn 5:13 WEB These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

So, in all seriousness and honesty.... you don't actually want to use the failures of others as your justification to send yourself to an eternity separated from God.
And as for your claim that it has "worked" for people for thousands of years... other religions claim the same thing.
And yet you don't actually have any knowledge to back this up, which means that you are hiding behind excuses and the failure of others to send yourself to an eternity separated from God...

Repent and believe the gospel of Jesus, Bob!

YHVH says that he has given us everything we need to know him and live a life that honors him and upon your death, you will be immediately ushered into his Kingdom and home.

Read this very closely.
You can indeed continue to argue, which will only succeed in excluding yourself from knowing God, or, you can stop, and start reading, and learn what knowing God and Jesus consists of.
Jesus made it possible to be wholly restored to a right relationship with YHVH. And he said he would never turn away anyone who comes to him.


2Pe 1:2-13 WEB 2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 seeing that his divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and virtue, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and exceedingly great promises; that through these you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Yes, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence; and in moral excellence, knowledge; 6 and in knowledge, self-control; and in self-control perseverance; and in perseverance godliness; 7 and in godliness brotherly affection; and in brotherly affection, love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to not be idle or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brothers, be more diligent to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never stumble. 11 For thus you will be richly supplied with the entrance into the eternal Kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. 12 Therefore I will not be negligent to remind you of these things, though you know them, and are established in the present truth. 13 I think it right, as long as I am in this tent, to stir you up by reminding you,
 

SteveB

Well-known member
No, history doesn't say otherwise. Atheism doesn't cause despotic acts. If you disagree, be specific. Provide evidence where despots have said they did what they did for atheism.
Lenin
Stalin
Mao
Pol Pot
Over 100,000,000 in just over 50 years.


Crusades... inquisition... witch hunts... the extermination of the Cathers. That should get you started.
So, people who don't follow the instructions given in the bible and use the bible to create a political environment, in violation of the bible mean that Jesus taught his followers to commit the crimes you're talking about?

You're going to have to do better than that Bob.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
More non-responsive childishness, refusing to accept responsibility for his own words. Yawn.
You're the one who keeps trying to win arguments which were lost at the resurrection of Jesus.
Don't like it?
Good! You're not supposed to like it.
Find it painfully tediously and morosely boring?
Perfect! You're supposed to!

You're more than welcome to dump everything you're doing, rejoin the discussion, and stop being so morosely boring and painfully tedious.
 

rossh

Well-known member
It was written thousands of years ago and was a product of it's time. What it meant to the ancient Hebrews is vastly different to the literal approach of many of today's Christians.
well why would it have anything at to do with the rejected Messiah of Israel ?
 

rossh

Well-known member
Ok.
So, you should have no problem with explaining it.

What does Paul say about this in Romans 10, and 1 Corinthians 1:18-29?
Paul no longer killed the believing Jews....Paul was most likely one of those who wanted Yeshua killed and refused to believe the Resurrection. Paul had history...
 
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rossh

Well-known member
Quoting scripture and interpreting their meaning are two different things. Presenting a different understanding is not Trolling.
If it is then there is a multitude of Christian denominations started by trolls.
Ha, interpreting Scripture ? please I am not a cult follower, God says exactly what God wants to say as it is.
Thou shalt not kill.. well wonder what that means ummmm ?
Please, show me which passage/s that you need to understand ?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
do your own scripture reading, seriously ?
Yeah, I am being serious.
I'm asking you a simple question of what Paul said about the issue you posted Saturday evening.

Amen,, and that is the truth, but how do we show atheists this truth, so that they too can also truly believe and then be saved.. ??

so, I asked you what you're familiar with in those two passages.

Paul tells us exactly what the answer is to your question.
He answered it in Romans 10, and 1 Corinthians 1.

Please tell me what it is.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Yeah, I am being serious.
I'm asking you a simple question of what Paul said about the issue you posted Saturday evening.



so, I asked you what you're familiar with in those two passages.

Paul tells us exactly what the answer is to your question.
He answered it in Romans 10, and 1 Corinthians 1.

Please tell me what it is.
Showing non believers anything is basically a waste of time...they just do not want to believe..
I have a lot of questions but no one here can answer any of them. Seems that are all into esoteric acrobatics and mental gymnastics just to come to some wrong conclusion about the Word of God. It also seems that many of you do not in fact believe that Scripture, is in fact the very Word of God Himself. It is all about Salvation.. Why is God trying to save all of us, yet, as you seem to think, He gives a book full of mysteries...?
 
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Nouveau

Well-known member
Showing non believers anything is basically a waste of time...they just do not want to believe..
I have a lot of questions but no one here can answer any of them. Seems that are all into esoteric acrobatics and mental gymnastics just to come some wrong conclusion about the Word of God. It also seems that many of you do not in fact believe that Scripture, is in fact the very Word of God Himself. It is all about Salvation..
Can you give us any good reason to believe that scripture is the Word of God? I'll believe it if there is a good evidential reason to do so.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Can you give us any good reason to believe that scripture is the Word of God? I'll believe it if there is a good evidential reason to do so.
so ? well let me ask you who wrote the Scriptures ? Well it is shown in the Scriptures who the author is and it is not the one took the dictation.
The author of the Bible is God, who moved people, like Paul, Peter and John to write down what He wanted, what He authored. And if you ask how did God move them, Galatians gives us the answer for the case of Paul which is also the same for all the others:
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
so ? well let me ask you who wrote the Scriptures ? Well it is shown in the Scriptures who the author is and it is not the one took the dictation.
The author of the Bible is God, who moved people, like Paul, Peter and John to write down what He wanted, what He authored. And if you ask how did God move them, Galatians gives us the answer for the case of Paul which is also the same for all the others:
This is probably why you can't convince anyone. You're not actually giving any good reasons.
 

rossh

Well-known member
This is probably why you can't convince anyone. You're not actually giving any good reasons.
How am I responsible for other adults and what they do or do not do or choose to believe and or not believe, lol
Well it is very obvious, to me, that Eternal Life with God is much much greatly preferred over and eternity in Hell with Lucifer and his fallen gang.

But then again, all those that do not want the truth will just dismiss Heaven and Hell..
 

rossh

Well-known member
Can you give us any good reason to believe that scripture is the Word of God? I'll believe it if there is a good evidential reason to do so.
Well read the entire Bible for yourself, and at least be honest for your own self in that as well.
 
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