Question for Everyone: The Atheist's "Burden of Refutation"

[rossh]

They are reasons of logic that you can show wrong if they are. The point is, again, that asking someone if they can disprove God as if it means something if they can't is wrong. It means nothing because despite not being able to disprove God, it's possible he still might not exist anyway.

Do you understand this point?

I'm not always right about things.


So you say.

well sure but I am not the one who started that OP nor do I make that issue. I stated somewhere that I do in deed believe in God.. How can one not ? as if this world is the best that we can ever hope for ?
Mankind is so easily deceived, and I was in that mob for decades myself. The best example is in those old horror movies which show Satan ( Lucifer ) as some grotesque monster. Well, it happens that he was Gods most beautiful angel. That is what got him into bother and kicked out.. While this is nothing in a sense but it show how misunderstanding are abundant all over the world.

 

[Nouveau]

I stated somewhere that I do indeed believe in God. How can one not?

The lack of evidence for any God makes it very easy.

as if this world is the best that we can ever hope for?

Hope is not a basis for belief. Is there good evidence for any other world but this one?

 

[Whatsisface]

well sure but I am not the one who started that OP nor do I make that issue.

Your post #814,

"lol, what a load of untruths, seriously ? I do how ever, believe that your comments and observations are simply figments of your imagination. Please prove that there is NO God...."

Your words stated as if they mean something that I am challenging because it's an idea that may support your belief in God, but I don't think it does.

I stated somewhere that I do in deed believe in God.. How can one not ?

Because the evidence that such belief is based on is poor at best. Most of the major religions were born at a time when scientific knowledge was not what it is today and thinking was superstitious and magical. Theye were our first guesses as to what the world was all about.

as if this world is the best that we can ever hope for ?

Why is this relevant?

Mankind is so easily deceived, and I was in that mob for decades myself.

Agreed. How do you know you're not deceived now?

The best example is in those old horror movies which show Satan ( Lucifer ) as some grotesque monster. Well, it happens that he was Gods most beautiful angel. That is what got him into bother and kicked out.. While this is nothing in a sense but it show how misunderstanding are abundant all over the world.

It sounds like a story.

 

[rossh]

loalb, so saying that there is not God supports my belief that there IS a God.. Oh well,, if that is how you determine things, then so it is..

 

[rossh]

Your post #814,

"lol, what a load of untruths, seriously ? I do how ever, believe that your comments and observations are simply figments of your imagination. Please prove that there is NO God...."

Your words stated as if they mean something that I am challenging because it's an idea that may support your belief in God, but I don't think it does.

Because the evidence that such belief is based on is poor at best. Most of the major religions were born at a time when scientific knowledge was not what it is today and thinking was superstitious and magical. Theye were our first guesses as to what the world was all about.

Why is this relevant?

Agreed. How do you know you're not deceived now?

It sounds like a story.

Because the evidence that such belief is based on is poor at best. Most of the major religions were born at a time when scientific knowledge was not what it is today and thinking was superstitious and magical. Theye were our first guesses as to what the world was all about.

well,, this is your supposition..
History teaches us that the pagans believed in gods, but the One True God had not shown Himself to anyone until such time/s as God saw fit to do so..

 

[rossh]

Your post #814,

"lol, what a load of untruths, seriously ? I do how ever, believe that your comments and observations are simply figments of your imagination. Please prove that there is NO God...."

Your words stated as if they mean something that I am challenging because it's an idea that may support your belief in God, but I don't think it does.

Because the evidence that such belief is based on is poor at best. Most of the major religions were born at a time when scientific knowledge was not what it is today and thinking was superstitious and magical. Theye were our first guesses as to what the world was all about.

Why is this relevant?

Agreed. How do you know you're not deceived now?

It sounds like a story.

well that is your opinion, so deal with it yourself. Debate by slander, and putting others down, as if you are the only one that knows anything.

 

[Whatsisface]

well that is your opinion, so deal with it yourself. Debate by slander, and putting others down, as if you are the only one that knows anything.

Rossh, this is a discussion board where the existence of God is debated. Part of that is showing when an argument or evidence is invalid as theists point out when they think I've got something wrong. It happens all the time. This is all I'm pointing out to you. You said something that supports your belief in God and I've pointed out that I think it's invalid and given the reasons I think it. Of course I might be mistaken and you are free to explain why I might be, but you haven't given any such reason.

You've dodged the point instead of either acknowledging or refuting it which is why i've pressed you.

 

[Nouveau]

loalb, so saying that there is not God supports my belief that there IS a God.. Oh well,, if that is how you determine things, then so it is..

1. What is "loalb"?
2. Who are you talking to? (You didn't quote anyone.)
3. Why are you strawmanning?
4. Why are you doubling your punctuation?

 

[SteveB]

Steve, LOTS of people have asked you for the specific process to know the deity of the bible. You never give anything but vague answers.

It's been stated hundreds, even thousands of times, by several people over the past several years.

Turn from your sin to YHVH, and place your trust in Jesus.

That's not vaguery.
That's simplicity.


It's stated in Joel, and restated in Romans 10,

Whosoever shall call on his name shall be saved.

Jesus said that he will not turn away anyone who comes to him.

 

[SteveB]

No, they didn't. You have yet to demonstrate that they did.

Well, you go right ahead and keep telling yourself that.
I've previously provided numerous articles that state otherwise.

I do however have a very simple solution for you to verify that you're right and I'm wrong.
Travel to China, or North Korea and talk to them about it.

So then, your remarks about despots committing despotic acts because of atheism are JUST YOUR OPINION.

That would indeed help justify your beliefs and assumptions about it.

Because atheism isn't to blame. The same can't be said for religion.

Tell that to the people who are dead, in prison or have lost their lives because of atheist governments.

 

[Bob1]

It's been stated hundreds, even thousands of times, by several people over the past several years.

Turn from your sin to YHVH, and place your trust in Jesus.

That's not vaguery.
That's simplicity.


It's stated in Joel, and restated in Romans 10,

Whosoever shall call on his name shall be saved.

Jesus said that he will not turn away anyone who comes to him.

And what about the people who have done this... and found nothing???

 

[Bob1]

Well, you go right ahead and keep telling yourself that.
I've previously provided numerous articles that state otherwise.

I do however have a very simple solution for you to verify that you're right and I'm wrong.
Travel to China, or North Korea and talk to them about it.


That would indeed help justify your beliefs and assumptions about it.



Tell that to the people who are dead, in prison or have lost their lives because of atheist governments.

You've neither demonstrated nor proven any such thing. You just CLAIM it.

Your OPINION again.

Tell that to the people who were tortured, imprisoned, and killed by Christians.

 

[ferengi]

Unsupported that this is a false claim.

shifting the burden - prove the LoC false

 

[SteveB]

Do you have critical thinking skills?

My physics professor who was the department chair thought I did.

He took me aside one day and said it was his responsibility to weed out the wannabes and can dos.
He said that I had what it took to do physics. So, if the department chair says I have critical thinking skills, then I'd say that I do....

These questions are suggestive of brain trauma.

Sounds like you need to vilify me so you can make yourself appear more intelligent.

Well, what else can I expect from an atheist who is afraid of his BS being exposed.

Don't worry though.

Everyone will have their lives exposed by God.
As it's written,
Be sure that your sin will find you out.

Forgive me, it is not my intention to be rude or insulting but I think it is important to know so that people can respond to you appropriately.
Surely you've read books that are fantastic or fictional in nature and you've likely read books that are factual in nature, right? What makes the words true or fictional are the meanings of the words and statements, not whether or not the words are in a book.
Surely you grasp that concept, right?

Sure it is.
Otherwise you wouldn't be here.
I see that you went through a rather lengthy process of posting 11 posts. So, I don't think that you're not trying to be rude at all.
I've never observed any of your posts which have actually been reasonable discussion. So, why would you change now?

 

[Whatsisface]

My physics professor who was the department chair thought I did.

He took me aside one day and said it was his responsibility to weed out the wannabes and can dos.
He said that I had what it took to do physics. So, if the department chair says I have critical thinking skills, then I'd say that I do....

But, he didn't actually say that. If you were obviously a can do, he wouldn't have taken you aside. What did he say next?

 

[SteveB]

And what about the people who have done this... and found nothing???

Then they didn't. YHVH is quite clear about this.

He said that he will be found by us in the day that we seek him with a whole heart.
He further stated that he would give us a heart to know him.
He stated further still that he will refuse the proud and give grace to the humble.
So, as stated in the Romans 1, 2, and psalm 19 passages, he's given us everything we need to know him on his terms.

Failure to engage him on his terms is evidence of egocentric behavior.

 

[SteveB]

You've neither demonstrated nor proven any such thing. You just CLAIM it.

Your own egocentric behavior.
God rejects the proud and gives grace to the humble.

Your OPINION again.

So far I only see yours.
God gives grace to the humble and rejects the proud.

Tell that to the people who were tortured, imprisoned, and killed by Christians.

I'm not the one who committed the crimes you're talking about.
You take it up with them.

 

[Bob1]

Then they didn't. YHVH is quite clear about this.

He said that he will be found by us in the day that we seek him with a whole heart.
He further stated that he would give us a heart to know him.
He stated further still that he will refuse the proud and give grace to the humble.
So, as stated in the Romans 1, 2, and psalm 19 passages, he's given us everything we need to know him on his terms.

Failure to engage him on his terms is evidence of egocentric behavior.

Oh but they did... and found nothing. You still refuse to acknowledge that fact. You just dismiss it out of hand.

 

[Bob1]

Your own egocentric behavior.
God rejects the proud and gives grace to the humble.



So far I only see yours.
God gives grace to the humble and rejects the proud.


I'm not the one who committed the crimes you're talking about.
You take it up with them.

That's not evidence... just more of your dodging.

Says the guy who hasn't offered anything other than opinions.

More dodging on your part. You don't want to admit your religion has played a role in atrocities... but you'll instantly and totally blame any viewpoint you disagree with as being the catalyst for such acts.

 

[SteveB]

Oh but they did... and found nothing.

Then according to the bible, they didn't do it the way Jesus said, no matter how much you want it to be right.
I think that the problem here is that you want to hide behind the failures and excuses of others, so you don't have to take responsibility for yourself.

You still refuse to acknowledge that fact. You just dismiss it out of hand.

Because I actually read the bible for the purpose of understanding, learning, instruction and perspective so I can know what God requires of me to follow Jesus, and gain the benefits of knowing God.

When I stand before God and answer for my own life, I don't want to have any excuses to hide behind.
I may indeed have my hat handed to me, but it won't be because I had excuses, or blamed my refusal on the failures of others.