Question for Everyone: The Atheist's "Burden of Refutation"

[SteveB]

And deeply so. I might not be able to manage a second or third serving of pie for desert tonight. Not sure when I’ll recover.

If pie is the only problem you have in working through it, you're obviously not offended.

I might sue Matt Slick. Then again, I might not.

So much for effective solutions.

 

[SteveB]

I would say the burden of proof is on the person who started the "argument". The person who framed the original question.

If an atheist said there is no God....then the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate there is no God. A believer in God doesn't have to demonstrate there is a God when participating in the atheistic framed question.

Let's see how they fall all over themselves trying to figure out that one.

 

[CrowCross]

On the Y chromosome?

Is it possible to have two different versions of the Y chromosome with one being dominant?

 

[CrowCross]

Let's see how they fall all over themselves trying to figure out that one.

It normally goes like this

Athiest:There is no God.
Christian: Yes there is.
Athiest:Then prove God exist.

Typically an Athiest make a statement...the shifts the burdon of proof to the Christian due to their response back.

The conversation should have went like this...
Athiest:There is no God.
Christian: Can you prove there is no God?

In this instance the burden of proof was left on the Athiest.....who would then typically respond back with "Can you prove there is a God"....Once again shifting the burden of proof.

 

[Algor]

Is it possible to have two different versions of the Y chromosome with one being dominant?

It is possible to have two Y chromosomes, but in general the issue with that is that it produces pathology (Google XYY syndrome). However, the maximum number of different Y chromosomes this can give you in Noah’s family is 2, because all the Y chromosomes are descended from one guy (Noah). Giving him more Y chromosomes just makes him sicker.

OTOH the whole story requires innumerable miracles to begin with, so....

 

[SteveB]

It normally goes like this

Athiest:There is no God.
Christian: Yes there is.
Athiest:Then prove God exist.

My observations too.

Typically an Athiest make a statement...the shifts the burdon of proof to the Christian due to their response back.

This is where we tell them- repent and believe the gospel and YHVH will give you exactly what is necessary to know he is real and knowable.

The conversation should have went like this...
Athiest:There is no God.
Christian: Can you prove there is no God?

The irony is that in Isaiah 57:15 it presents them with the dilemma and solution, simultaneously.

In this instance the burden of proof was left on the Athiest.....who would then typically respond back with "Can you prove there is a God"....Once again shifting the burden of proof.

Which is exactly why I commented-- let's see how they fall all over themselves....

Grace and Peace be with you.

 

[CrowCross]

It is possible to have two Y chromosomes, but in general the issue with that is that it produces pathology (Google XYY syndrome). However, the maximum number of different Y chromosomes this can give you in Noah’s family is 2, because all the Y chromosomes are descended from one guy (Noah). Giving him more Y chromosomes just makes him sicker.

OTOH the whole story requires innumerable miracles to begin with, so....

Nothing wrong with miracles. Who closed the door?

 

[CrowCross]

The irony is that in Isaiah 57:15 it presents them with the dilemma and solution, simultaneously.

Isaiah 53 also gives them problems.

 

[SteveB]

Isaiah 53 also gives them problems.

Indeed!

 

[Whatsisface]

It normally goes like this

Athiest:There is no God.
Christian: Yes there is.
Athiest:Then prove God exist.

Typically an Athiest make a statement...the shifts the burdon of proof to the Christian due to their response back.

The conversation should have went like this...
Athiest:There is no God.
Christian: Can you prove there is no God?

In this instance the burden of proof was left on the Athiest.....who would then typically respond back with "Can you prove there is a God"....Once again shifting the burden of proof.

The problem is I'm not sure it's possible to disprove God, even if He doesn't exist. If we discover a theory of everything that explains the universe, you can still claim God was behind it all.

Thing is, we logically believe things true when we have evidence for that thing, not when we have no evidence against. That's why in most things, the burden of proof naturally lies with the person making the possitive claim. In this case, it's, there is a God.

 

[CrowCross]

The problem is I'm not sure it's possible to disprove God, even if He doesn't exist. If we discover a theory of everything that explains the universe, you can still claim God was behind it all.

Thing is, we logically believe things true when we have evidence for that thing, not when we have no evidence against. That's why in most things, the burden of proof naturally lies with the person making the possitive claim. In this case, it's, there is a God.

27‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also end up in this place of torment.’

29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’

30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’

31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

 

[Whatsisface]

27‘Then I beg you, father,’ he said, ‘send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also end up in this place of torment.’

29But Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let your brothers listen to them.’

30‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone is sent to them from the dead, they will repent.’

31Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

*Sigh*..... your point is?

 

[SteveB]

*Sigh*..... your point is?

In your present state, you won't be able to know until it's too late to do anything about it and you'll have utterly screwed yourself.

So, come follow Jesus. Then you can actually know YHVH is real and knowable.

 

[J regia]

In your present state, you won't be able to know until it's too late to do anything about it and you'll have utterly screwed yourself.

So, come follow Jesus. Then you can actually know YHVH is real and knowable.

Where does Jesus live?

 

[Whatsisface]

In your present state, you won't be able to know until it's too late to do anything about it and you'll have utterly screwed yourself.

So, come follow Jesus. Then you can actually know YHVH is real and knowable.

So you say.

 

[SteveB]

Where does Jesus live?

With his Father.

 

[J regia]

With his Father.

So where do Jesus and Heli's son live?

 

[SteveB]

So where do Jesus and Heli's son live?

With YHVH.

 

[Algor]

Nothing wrong with miracles. Who closed the door?

Nothing wrong with miracles per se, depending on ones metaphysics, but invoking and accepting them puts a kibosh on scientific explanations of the event in question, that’s all.

 

[SteveB]

Nothing wrong with miracles per se, depending on ones metaphysics, but invoking and accepting them puts a kibosh on scientific explanations of the event in question, that’s all.

Ok.
So how do you propose scientific observations of an event that scientists weren't prepared to be present for at the time the miracle took place?

Then, since there's no means by which it's possible to observe the atomic scale transformation from the former to the new, how would you be able to know that it took place?

Seems to me that this would prevent you from knowing the things you're referring to.