Question for Lutherans on the Eucharist.

Beloved Daughter

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Can one of you help me to understand the difference between the Lutheran 'real presence' and the Catholic/Orthodox 'real presence'?
 
Lutheranian

Lutheranian

Active member
We believe the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ "in, with, and under" the bread and wine, in Sacramental Union.

Catholics believe there is no bread and wine at all after consecration, only the "accidents" or outward appearance.
 
Bonnie

Bonnie

Super Member
Yes, we believe the bread and wine are still bread and wine, while Jesus' true body and blood are present in, with, and under the elements. We do not understand it, as it is a mystery, but one we joyously accept. :)
 
Bonnie

Bonnie

Super Member
Our Lord's God said:
Lutherans take Jesus' words "This IS my body" to mean this IS NOT his body but that he would be WITH his body.

Quite the headstand.
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That is incorrect. We believe what I stated. We do not attempt to explain it, we just call it the Real Presence and accept it.
 
Bonnie

Bonnie

Super Member
Our Lord's God said:
I see. Your words are empty.
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What part of "everything" did you not understand? I will put it another way: Nothing you wrote in your post accurately reflects what Lutherans believe about the Real Presence in the Lord's Supper. In fact, what you wrote makes no sense. Hence, "Everything."
 
Our Lord's God

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Bonnie said:
What part of "everything" did you not understand? I will put it another way: Nothing you wrote in your post accurately reflects what Lutherans believe about the Real Presence in the Lord's Supper. In fact, what you wrote makes no sense. Hence, "Everything."
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Funny how you haven't been able to show how.
 
Bonnie

Bonnie

Super Member
Beloved Daughter said:
Thanks to both of you. I don't fully understand but your answers helped enough to see the distinction.

God Speed ✝️
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None of us fully understands it either, nor do we need to--so we just accept it by faith. And do so joyfully. God speed to you, too BD!
 
Septextura

Septextura

Well-known member
Few snips from https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/luther-vs-zwingli-2-luther-on-the-lords-supper/

In the medieval period before the Reformation, the mass formed the centerpiece of Christian worship and devotion. Three centuries before Luther began teaching in Wittenberg, the fourth Lateran council of 1215 established the doctrine of transubstantiation, which holds that upon the priest’s consecration of the bread and wine, the accidents (according to the senses) remain the same, but the substance (the internal “essence”) is miraculously transformed into the physical body and blood of Christ.

The implications of this doctrine were widespread. Laypeople began to adore the bread and wine from afar or superstitiously carry pieces of bread back home to plant in the garden for good crops or to give to an ailing animal for good health. To avoid an accidental spilling of the wine, the priests began giving only the bread to parishioners, keeping the cup for themselves. By the 1500’s, even the bread was withheld in most churches.

The mass had turned into a show instead of a sacrament. Some parishioners feverishly hurried from church to church to obtain the blessing of seeing more than one host in a given day.
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Despite Luther’s independent thinking on the Lord’s Supper, in most aspects, he remained very close to Roman Catholic theology and practice. Though he rejected the adoration of the consecrated host, he affirmed the idea of reverence in the forms of bowing or prostrating oneself before the table. He insisted that the object of adoration should be Jesus Christ, as He is present in the sacrament, not the bread and wine.
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A popular misconception among Reformation students is that Luther affirmed and promoted “consubstantiation,” but neither Luther nor the Lutheran church ever accepted that term. Luther simply refused to speculate on how Christ is present and instead settled for affirming that he is there. The presence of Christ in the Supper is miraculous and thus defies explanation.

Roman Catholic theologians strongly emphasized the moment of consecration, when the priest would lift the bread and say “Hoc est corpus meum.” At that moment, bells would be rung and all eyes would be on the elevated host, which had magically been transformed into Christ’s body.
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The center of Luther’s theology of the Lord’s Supper is the idea of “sacramental union.” At the Lord’s Table, in this sacred moment in which the elements of bread and wine are sacramentally united to the body and blood of Christ, God simultaneously reveals and hides himself. The paradox of God’s incomprehensibility and self-revelation formed the basis for Luther’s rejection of all philosophical speculations on how Christ is physically present. The idea of sacramental union was Luther’s response to Roman transubstantiation.
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Septextura

Septextura

Well-known member
What is there to not understand? It's a banquet with the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
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Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
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He is the bread of life, the living water. His presence with the faithful heals and restores hope. We crave our Shepherd's guidance, His voice. We need His High Priestley washing of sins in the blood of the Lamb of God.
 
Lutheranian

Lutheranian

Active member
Bonnie said:
Yes, I did--you got nothing correct as to what we believe about the Real Presence. In fact, your post did not even make sense. So, I did point out ONE thing, did I not,?
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This poster appears to not believe the trinity or Jesus' is God. If they are that confused then its not a surprise they are confused by your words too. Anyway, they are not Christian so who cares what they think.
 
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