Question for the Author of the Question for the arborist Thread

Tercon

Well-known member
I haven't got any children - I was being sarcastic.

There is zero, squat, no evidence whatsoever that dying in unbelief has any eternal consequences.

NONE. WHATSOEVER.

If the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to occur is in and with a believing mind and the truth and reality always existed, because to suggest otherwise is self-refuting, then the truth and reality must be the result of God's believing mind.

And it's simply not true that "there is zero, squat, no evidence whatsoever that dying in unbelief has any eternal consequences", because the "eternal consequences" of a unbelieving mind is the utter ignorance of God you find yourself.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
If the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to occur is in and with a believing mind and the truth and reality always existed, because to suggest otherwise is self-refuting, then the truth and reality must be the result of God's believing mind.

And it's simply not true that "there is zero, squat, no evidence whatsoever that dying in unbelief has any eternal consequences", because the "eternal consequences" of a unbelieving mind is the utter ignorance of God you find yourself.
You claimed that: "Unbelievers destroy their own children by lying to them that 'there is no God'."

I asked you what evidence you had for this, and the best you could come up with was a post made after your claim, and one which was very obviously not being serious.
 

Furion

Well-known member
No.

Those mothers wanted to have those children.
"Every sane husband knows you do anything for your wife" - even a man married off against his will to a wife he never asked for?

You're not a mother until your child is born.
Until then, you are a pregnant woman.

Who are you to tell a woman that she must carry a baby to term?

(Not a rhetorical question - thanks to the law, you are no-one.)
Please do not procreate.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Have you not read the old testament? Let me know when you get to the parts where God destroys a whole lot of people. Such as when he sent a flood for the express purpose of wiping out nearly all of humanity.

Yes.

It is only the unbeliever who thinks they can oppose the reality of God without consequences. I have already shown you that if the ONLY way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the result of a God's believing mind.

You don't know that, nor is it relevant to what I said. You've yet to say anything true, but keep trying I guess?

That's not guessing at all, rather it is that's a justified true belief.
If the ONLY way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then the truth, reality, logic, morality, consciousness and existence itself must be the result of Someone believing mind. And since it is only a believing mind that these things can be known to exist, then these things must be the product of a believing mind. And you have NOT said one thing to disprove this obvious of truths.

The many truths you keep rejecting in favor of unbelief. Such as that knowledge is justified true belief.

How about the truth that justified true belief is still belief silly?

That belief alone is not sufficient for knowledge.

Belief is the ONLY thing that insures knowledge of the truth and reality silly.

That fiction is not knowledge. That knowledge is not a form of existence. That reality need not exist in a mind. And that your God is purely imaginary.

If fiction is knowable, then there must be fictional knowledge silly, as there is plenty of knowledge that isn't related to reality.

For instance atheism is fictional knowledge, because if atheism is a lack of belief and whereas belief (JTB) is necessary in order to obtain knowledge of the truth and reality, then atheism must be fictional knowledge.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
You claimed that: "Unbelievers destroy their own children by lying to them that 'there is no God'."

I asked you what evidence you had for this, and the best you could come up with was a post made after your claim, and one which was very obviously not being serious.

Are you suggesting that atheists don't tell there children that the truth and reality of God doesn't exist and unbelievers don't kill their own unborn children through abortion?
 

Algor

Well-known member
Are you suggesting that atheists don't tell there children that the truth and reality of God doesn't exist and unbelievers don't kill their own unborn children through abortion?
Enough Christians engage in abortion to suggest anything one wants to in that regard.

Maybe the believing mind isn't quite as potent as you think it is.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Enough Christians engage in abortion to suggest anything one wants to in that regard.

Not true. Believers don't abort babies.
If someone aborts a baby, then that excludes them from being a Christian. They may become a Christian after, when guilt overtakes them and they seek forgiveness, but it is impossible to be a believer and kill your own baby at the same time.

Maybe the believing mind isn't quite as potent as you think it is.

If the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then it's only a believing mind that has the capacity to even contemplate power silly.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Sure they do. Anyone can be a hypocrit, anyone can fail. Seen it with my own eyes, and I'll believe them before I believe you.

I don't believe you. No-one can know the truth and reality of God and kill there own baby at the same time.
 

Algor

Well-known member
I don't believe you.
Oh, you finally found something that believing doesn't make true, did you?

Well, you're wrong anyways. I mean, seriously, you think that just because you get an idea in your head, you become morally steadfast, won't succumb to fear, won't do something you know is wrong, you'll just be a perfect paragon? What utter, utter nonsense.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Are you suggesting that atheists don't tell there children that the truth and reality of God doesn't exist and unbelievers don't kill their own unborn children through abortion?
I've certainly never done any of those things. Do you know of any atheist who has?
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Yes.

It is only the unbeliever who thinks they can oppose the reality of God without consequences. I have already shown you that if the ONLY way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must be the result of a God's believing mind.

That's not guessing at all, rather it is that's a justified true belief.
If the ONLY way and place that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur is in and with a believing mind, then the truth, reality, logic, morality, consciousness and existence itself must be the result of Someone believing mind. And since it is only a believing mind that these things can be known to exist, then these things must be the product of a believing mind. And you have NOT said one thing to disprove this obvious of truths.
Complete gibberish and irrelevant to what you were replying to. Do you acknowledge you were wrong to claim God doesn't destroy people?

How about the truth that justified true belief is still belief silly?
That is true, but irrelevant to my point, which is that you reject the truth that knowledge is JTB.
You choose unbelief instead when this truth is presented to you.

Belief is the ONLY thing that insures knowledge of the truth and reality silly.
No it isn't. As per the JTB definition, you also need truth and justification. Belief alone is no guarantee of knowledge.

If fiction is knowable, then there must be fictional knowledge silly, as there is plenty of knowledge that isn't related to reality.
Wrong again. You are still conflating fictional knowledge and knowledge of fiction. The latter is both knowledge and true.

For instance atheism is fictional knowledge.
No it isn't. Atheism is the absence of belief in God.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Oh, you finally found something that believing doesn't make true, did you?

Belief doesn't work on unbelievers, because their unbelieving minds make them ignorant of the truth and reality.

Well, you're wrong anyways. I mean, seriously, you think that just because you get an idea in your head, you become morally steadfast, won't succumb to fear, won't do something you know is wrong, you'll just be a perfect paragon? What utter, utter nonsense.

Strawman. But you can't do anything right without a believing mind making the truth and reality is known to you silly.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Complete gibberish and irrelevant to what you were replying to. Do you acknowledge you were wrong to claim God doesn't destroy people?

Just because you don't like what's being said doesn't mean it isn't true silly. Unbelievers like you destroy people, pretending that you can have knowledge of the truth and reality without believing it first silly.

That is true, but irrelevant to my point, which is that you reject the truth that knowledge is JTB.
You choose unbelief instead when this truth is presented to you.

More strawmanning. YOU can't know the truth and reality without believing it first, no matter how hard you lie silly.

No it isn't. As per the JTB definition, you also need truth and justification. Belief alone is no guarantee of knowledge.

JTB is belief silly.

Wrong again. You are still conflating fictional knowledge and knowledge of fiction. The latter is both knowledge and true.

Neither "fictional knowledge" nor "knowledge of fiction" relates to reality. So why would they require a justified true belief silly?

No it isn't. Atheism is the absence of belief in God.

If all knowledge of the truth and reality requires a justified true belief and atheism is just a lack of belief, then atheism can't be known to exist or occur in reality silly. I mean really, if truth and reality requires and entails a believing mind and atheism requires and entails a unbelieving mind, then how is atheism known to exist in reality silly.
 

Algor

Well-known member
You're lying.
I am most certainly not. Truth and reality are knocking on your believing mind, it's just you don't like it very much.

So plug your ears and chant "la-la-la" if it helps make the truth go away. Fine with me.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I am most certainly not. Truth and reality are knocking on your believing mind, it's just you don't like it very much.
So plug your ears and chant "la-la-la" if it helps make the truth go away. Fine with me.

Sure you are. Is that what works for you; you "plug your ears and chant la-la-la" and it "helps make the truth go away" silly?
 
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