Question for Trinitarians on John 20:28?

CrowCross

Well-known member
Where did Jesus claim to be God dude, you are going to have to back that up with scripture and if you want to say he did this by calling God his Father and himself God's Son, I will take you to Psalm 2:7 where God first called David his Son in the singular and then also David's Son Solomon after him and as per 2 Samuel 7:14.

Only after David and Solomon did these passages apply to Jesus in Hebrew 1:5 and which reveals that being called God's Son is never meant to be taken as literal but rather as referring to one who is appointed to become God's heir and therefore the idiom "Son of God" refers to God's human heir and the Jews actually knew this also.

For nowhere in their OT did it ever refer to anything other than that and therefore when you attempt to teach people that Jews understood correctly that when Jesus called God his Father and himself God's Son, he was making himself equal unto God, you are teaching a lie period.

For the Jews could have never gotten that from their own OT scriptures, for it was never revealed to mean a literal Son of God but only a human heir to the throne of God instead.


However, the Jews hated Jesus for exposing them as hypocrites in the presences of all of the people and therefore they didn't want Jesus to be that King that would fulfill the complete promise made to David and Israel and so with the help of their Father the Devil, they twisted their own scripture in order to false accuse Jesus and have him murdered.
Jesus is God proof 11



Exo 20:2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.


Jude brings it up in the New Testament...

Jude 1:5 tells us.....5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

So, it was Jesus who saved the people...Jesus is God.
 
Jesus is God. Proof 7



Because Jesus claimed to be God the Jews said Jesus was guilty of being one

who blasphemes the name of the LORD



John 19:7....



The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."



The law the Jews were referring to was Lev. 14:7



Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.



The Jews of that time knew Jesus was making himself out to be God.



In the New Testament, the title "Son of God" is applied to Jesus on many occasions. It is often used to refer to his divinity,
Also, you are out of context in quoting Lev. 14:7, for that is not the verse that says what you are saying it does.

Besides this however, that is my point, for if the Jesus you believe in ever truly claimed to be equal unto God and as being sent to make an offering for the sins of all men, his sacrifice would have been worthless, for in claiming to be God and by the law of Moses, he would have been a sinner by doing so.


Therefore, your version of Jesus will never save you from your sins, because your version both broke the law of the Sabbath and also committed blasphemy, by claiming equally with God and it is just that simple.


So you best repent and believe in the true God and his true Christ before you go down with the rest of your cult "Mystery Babylon" because that day is drawing closer now then ever.
 
Jesus is God proof 11



Exo 20:2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.


Jude brings it up in the New Testament...

Jude 1:5 tells us.....5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

So, it was Jesus who saved the people...Jesus is God.
I would suggest you look that up on the Bible hub and you will see that the word Jesus is not used in the better translations because it is one of those mistakes found in some of the manuscripts and the better of which all used the word "kurios" instead.

Now then, either you were ignorant of it, or just used it with full knowledge of what I just said and which is being deceitful, for you know which it was don't you?


However, I am not that naïve and as you just learned.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Jesus is God proof 9





Isaiah 6:1 In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple.



This verse is talking about God.



Isaiah 52:13 Behold, my servant shall act wisely; he shall be high and lifted up, and shall be exalted.



This verse is about God being a servant. About God becoming a man. About God stepping out of His high and lifted up position and then having the high and lifted up position reestablished.



The verse is about Jesus, the Word, who was with God and was equal to God taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, Jesus the God man humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name.



Jesus, God the Son in the servant role glorified God the Father...



John 17:4 "I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do. 5" Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.



Jesus the servant, God the servant, stepped out of His glory that He had with the Father and died as a substitute atonement for many...Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors....and was later exalted, high and lifted up, Glory restored.
Isaiah 52:14 and the preceeding servant chapters refer to Israel. There's no mention of Jesus.

The visions in Isaiah 6 are just that. Visions and not reality.

John 17:22-23
I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.

So many people have the same glory that Jesus has. You've got quite a godhead going on. Polytheistic.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Also, you are out of context in quoting Lev. 14:7, for that is not the verse that says what you are saying it does.

Besides this however, that is my point, for if the Jesus you believe in ever truly claimed to be equal unto God and as being sent to make an offering for the sins of all men, his sacrifice would have been worthless, for in claiming to be God and by the law of Moses, he would have been a sinner by doing so.


Therefore, your version of Jesus will never save you from your sins, because your version both broke the law of the Sabbath and also committed blasphemy, by claiming equally with God and it is just that simple.


So you best repent and believe in the true God and his true Christ before you go down with the rest of your cult "Mystery Babylon" because that day is drawing closer now then ever.
So, you're SDA.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Paul said Jesus took the FORM of a servant...which means Jesus was a servant.
Paul earlier said Jesus was the FORM of God....same word...which means Jesus was God.

Jesus is God proof 10

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
We are in the form of God, his image, and we are his servants.

Jesus is nothing special. We are Gods. Jesus said so, quoting the Psalm below.

Psalm 82:6
I have said, ‘You are Gods;
you are all sons of the Most High.’

:cool:
 
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Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Jesus is God proof 11



Exo 20:2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.


Jude brings it up in the New Testament...

Jude 1:5 tells us.....5 Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.

So, it was Jesus who saved the people...Jesus is God.
Isaiah 63 says the opposite. The Father lead the people. Maybe switch out your Bible to KJV, etc.
 
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So, you're SDA.
Not in your life, I don't belong to any organized form of what was once Christianity, for I believe they are all in apostasy and that the spirit of antichrist has scattered and broken the power of the true believers and just like Daniel 12 states below.

Daniel 12:
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time.
When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be accomplished.”

8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, “My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?”

9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

13 “As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.”
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
We are in the form of God, his image, and we are his servants.

Jesus is nothing special. We are Gods. Jesus said so, quoting the Psalm below.

Psalm 82:6
I have said, ‘You are Gods;
you are all sons of the Most High.’

:cool:
No, we are not devine.
 
No, we are not devine.
Totally ignorant, who said anything about them being Divine?


The fact remains that in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8-9 and Psalm 82:1 and 6 and Psalm 45:6, and also Isaiah 9:6, men who are chosen as God's representatives are called by his own title of "elohim" and as Jesus said himself, the scriptures cannot be broken.

So then, was God calling them Divine by calling them by the title of "elohim"? For he was the one who called them "elohim" dude!
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Totally ignorant, who said anything about them being Divine?


The fact remains that in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8-9 and Psalm 82:1 and 6 and Psalm 45:6, and also Isaiah 9:6, men who are chosen as God's representatives are called by his own title of "elohim" and as Jesus said himself, the scriptures cannot be broken.

So then, was God calling them Divine by calling them by the title of "elohim"? For he was the one who called them "elohim" dude!
You're trying too hard...
 
Considering the OT verses say God created.....and the NT says Jesus created...Jesus MUST be God.

I agree with your proofs that Jesus is GOD...
1) Considering the OT verses say God created.....and the NT says Jesus created...Jesus MUST be God.
2) If only God knows the hearts of people...and Jesus knew their hearts....Jesus must be God.
3) If Jesus forgives sin...then Jesus must be God.
4) Thomas said My Lord and My God....and Jesus didn't correct Thomas.
5) In the description of the kenosis of Jesus...Jesus is described as God.
6) Jesus said I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End...in other words...God.
7) Because Jesus claimed to be God the Jews said Jesus was guilty of being one.
9) This verse is about God being a servant. About God becoming a man. About God stepping out of His high and lifted up position and then having the high and lifted up position reestablished.
10) John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

But your TRINITARIAN view is that Jesus is ONE OF THREE MEMBERS of God. Correct?
And your proofs DO NOT say Jesus is one of three members of God...
1) Considering the OT verses say God created.....and the NT says Jesus created...Jesus MUST be one of the three members of God.
2) If only God knows the hearts of people...and Jesus knew their hearts....Jesus must be one of the three members of God.
3) If Jesus forgives sin...then Jesus must be one of the three members of God.
4) Thomas said My Lord and one of the three members of God....and Jesus didn't correct Thomas.
5) In the description of the kenosis of Jesus...Jesus is described as one of the three members of God.
6) Jesus said I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End...in other words...one of the three members of God.
7) Because Jesus claimed to be one of the three members of God the Jews said Jesus was guilty of being one.
9) This verse is about one of the three members of God being a servant. About one of the three members of God becoming a man. About one of the three members of God stepping out of His high and lifted up position and then having the high and lifted up position reestablished.
10) John 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself one of the three members of God.”

P.S

Are you able to provide an overview of what you believe? Here is mine...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
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If only God knows the hearts of people...and Jesus knew their hearts....Jesus must be God.

There are three basic views promoted on this forum...
1) Jesus is NOT God incarnate (Unitarians)
2) Jesus is GOD incarnate (My belief)
3) Jesus is ONE OF THREE MEMBERS of God incarnate (Trinitarians)

All of the proofs you have presented support my belief that Jesus is GOD incarnate.

They DO NOT support your belief that Jesus is ONE OF THREE MEMBERS of God incarnate.

P.S

Are you able to provide an overview of what you believe? Here is mine...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
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