Question on Roman Catholic Mary's "Assumption"' into Heaven?
- Thread starter RayneBeau
- Start date
I don't see what effective difference there is. Aren't these terms synonymous?
Nondenom40
Well-known member
They don't like the term. Although its biblical. Others in the bible have been taken up but there is zero indication mary was. And the dogma says she was taken body and soul. There is a new youtube debate on this i haven't finished and its clear the catholic has no biblical support for marys assumption so he focuses on the church fathers.
Stella1000
Well-known member
Where is a 'rapture' mentioned in Scripture?
First I think there would need to be some evidence that the dead body of Mary floated up into the heavens. It appears it was not witnessed by any apostle and they were God's witnesses to the important events to do with salvation. There is no other named witnesses either. Then there is two or three burial sites for Mary.
Second then if it happened people going straight to heaven has been described in different terms. The rapture means caught up and it appears to be an end time event. I mean Enoch just walked with God. Elijah went up in a chariot or a whirlwind.
Gen 5:24
Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
2 Kings 2:11
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
But these events were recorded in scripture and Mary's wasn't.
Therefore is Mary's assumption real is really the question. It isn't in scripture whereas the other two times it occurred are recorded in history. They went up alive.
Mary is said to have died and then been assumed, which is not the same as either the rapture or Enoch and Elijah's ascent. According to catholic answers:
Yes, it is the common teaching in the ordinary Magisterium of the Church and in its liturgical worship that Our Lady underwent bodily death.
Oh no you cannot find it? The word “rapture” is derived from the Latin Vulgate Bible which was translated from the Greek word “harpázō,” meaning to “openly, forcefully take up” or “openly and suddenly catch away.” The English word “harpoon” even has some of its root basis from this word. from bible truth.
It is one of those words like trinity that describes a concept in the bible. But then RCs like to play word games.
A new day
Super Member
Don't forget that Jesus was also taken up.
Acts 1:9-10
After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently into the sky as He was going,
So. More deification of Mary? Jesus ascended, therefore Mary must ascend as well. ?
--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
A new day
Super Member
Is that taught in the Rcc? ?
Nondenom40
Well-known member
1 Thess 4
16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
And from Robertson's Word Pictures;
Shall be caught up (αρπαγησομεθα). Second future passive indicative of αρπαζω, old verb to seize, to carry off like Latin rapio.
Thayer;
to snatch or catch away: Act 8:39; Rev 12:5; followed by ἕως with the genitive of place, 2Co 12:2
Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
2Cor 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
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Oh I hadn't forgotten. Let us be honest the resurrection is more than a human event so to speak. It tells us so much. But you are right it is the most important event.
Not really taught. That it is what the image is telling the laity. I mean look at the pictures of the assumption and what they reveal. She is normally depicted on a cloud, surrounded by light.
PeanutGallery
Well-known member
Right, Jesus' ascension is written; where is it written Mary was taken up?
A new day
Super Member
I've never seen those pictures. I was never catholic, so I will have to google that one.
You were blessed. Just to make sure I wasn't wrong I did an image search, my memory was correct.
I don't doubt that at all. they have her on a cross at the Vatican. Mary on a cross. there'a a link at bottom of that page to more pictures.
Well they might not officially state she is co redeemer but deep down they believe it. Mary seems to be their preferred saviour, which is sad. Amazing how most of the NT is about Jesus and Mary is rarely mentioned, yet in the RCC it is the reverse.
Nondenom40
Well-known member
This is true and a great scene but its a different word in the greek. But i love this text, thanks for showing it. Its a picture of Jesus going out of sight where people could see this clearly. The rapture is a quick violent act of God to remove us from the earth and taken to heaven. The latin is where we get the word for rape. In this context its an act of love snatching His church from the earth before it hits the fan here. After the rapture comes the Day of the Lord. Not a good time to be here. If people reading this aren't saved, get saved. Gods wrath is coming. (and i don't mean you A new day...just fyi) Other people.