Question on the nature of Christ

1. Is Christ fully man?

2. If so, does He (like us) have a tripartite nature (body, soul, & spirit)?

3. If so, is the spirit of Christ the exact same person as the Holy Spirit, i.e. the third person of the trinity?

Why or why not?
 
1. Is Christ fully man?

2. If so, does He (like us) have a tripartite nature (body, soul, & spirit)?

3. If so, is the spirit of Christ the exact same person as the Holy Spirit, i.e. the third person of the trinity?

Why or why not?
The Spirit of Christ actually refers to the Spirit of God through which he was anointed and filled with God's presence and it is not referring to his own spirit as being a man and yes he is 100% man and which reveals that he couldn't possibly be both God and man either.

For in order for him to be 100% man, he would have to be 100% what every man is in his nature and I am not talking about his moral disposition but his ontology, for Jesus was just like Adam before he sinned.

1 John 4:1-4 tells us that we must confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and that means we must confess him as coming in what the Bible reveals flesh to be and not what the apostate churches would tell us it can be instead.

For no flesh as the Bible reveals what flesh is, is 100% flesh and also 100% God, for there is no such thing.


Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
 

zerinus

Active member
1. Is Christ fully man?
Yes.
2. If so, does He (like us) have a tripartite nature (body, soul, & spirit)?
Man is bipartite, not tripartite; and Jesus is no different. Man has a body and a spirit. Those are the only two parts that make man. The word soul is not something distinct or separate from his spirit or body. The word "soul" is sometimes used in scripture as a synonym for a spirit, and sometimes it is used to refer to the entire person, body and spirit combined. But there is no such thing as a "soul" distinct from a man's body and spirit.
3. If so, is the spirit of Christ the exact same person as the Holy Spirit, i.e. the third person of the trinity?
The "Spirit of Christ" used in scripture refers to the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost), which is the divine influence that proceeds from him as a divine being, It is not the same as either his body or his spirit, which combined make up his person.
Why or why not?
Jesus is no different from us as far as his body and spirit is concerned. He only begins to differ as far as his divinity is concerned; and the Holy Spirit which proceeds from him is an attribute of his divinity.
 
Yes.

Man is bipartite, not tripartite; and Jesus is no different. Man has a body and a spirit. Those are the only two parts that make man. The word soul is not something distinct or separate from his spirit or body. The word "soul" is sometimes used in scripture as a synonym for a spirit, and sometimes it is used to refer to the entire person, body and spirit combined. But there is no such thing as a "soul" distinct from a man's body and spirit.

The "Spirit of Christ" used in scripture refers to the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost), which is the divine influence that proceeds from him as a divine being, It is not the same as either his body or his spirit, which combined make up his person.

Jesus is no different from us as far as his body and spirit is concerned. He only begins to differ as far as his divinity is concerned; and the Holy Spirit which proceeds from him is an attribute of his divinity.
I agree with your second paragraph, for the soul refers to the whole created being and in the OT in Genesis, it even refers to the animals as being souls (creatures). God also is a Soul albeit not a created Soul, "for if any man draws back, my Soul shall have no pleasure in him".

I also agree that the Holy Spirit is what the Bible calls "The Spirit of Christ" as well but it is referring to His God that dwelt within Jesus and through his Holy Spirit and through which he was the anointed one, it doesn't refer to any part of Jesus' substance or ontology.

Jesus emptied himself of his own self as a man in the form of God and he did this in order that the Father would be revealed within and through him instead of himself.

Therefore the character and personality that we see in Jesus within the gospel records, is that of the Father who was dwelling within him and working within him and through him and not Jesus himself as the human male that God sent the seed of into the womb of Mary.

Jesus even explained this to us very clearly first in these passages below.

John 12:
45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.
50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” Then he made this even clearer yet in John 14:8-10

John 14:8-10​

New International Version​

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Notice in verse 10, Jesus gives the real reason why when they saw him they saw the Father and why his words where not coming from himself but rather the Father.


Notice also, that he didn't say this because he was God himself but only because God the Father was dwelling within him and revealing himself through Jesus and that was because Jesus emptied himself of his own identity and personality in order that the Father instead would be revealed through him.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
1. Is Christ fully man?

2. If so, does He (like us) have a tripartite nature (body, soul, & spirit)?

3. If so, is the spirit of Christ the exact same person as the Holy Spirit, i.e. the third person of the trinity?

Why or why not?
Hi Squirrel.

Jesus is "truly man". The Creed is very specific about the language used and avoids "fully man" because it is too vague a term. I'd also question the tripartite nature, as I think human beings are bipartite (body and soul/mind). The spiritual aspect of humanity is more about orientation than ontology.
 
Yes.

Man is bipartite, not tripartite; and Jesus is no different. Man has a body and a spirit. Those are the only two parts that make man. The word soul is not something distinct or separate from his spirit or body. The word "soul" is sometimes used in scripture as a synonym for a spirit, and sometimes it is used to refer to the entire person, body and spirit combined. But there is no such thing as a "soul" distinct from a man's body and spirit.

The "Spirit of Christ" used in scripture refers to the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost), which is the divine influence that proceeds from him as a divine being, It is not the same as either his body or his spirit, which combined make up his person.

Jesus is no different from us as far as his body and spirit is concerned. He only begins to differ as far as his divinity is concerned; and the Holy Spirit which proceeds from him is an attribute of his divinity.
Scripture says that man has all 3.

1 Thessalonians 5:23

23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Scripture says that man has all 3.

1 Thessalonians 5:23

23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Actually Paul is only using the word soul as what connects the spirit with the body to make the total human being and which is a soul and that is why it is in the middle between spirit and body also.

For man as spirit and body together is one living soul, but he isn't three parts and that wasn't Paul's intention in what he said either. Just go back to Genesis, for after God created man's body from the dust of the ground, he breathed into his nostrils and he became a living soul.

Notice, it doesn't say that he had a soul but that the spirit and the body together is what made him a living soul instead.
 
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aeg4971

New member
I agree with your second paragraph, for the soul refers to the whole created being and in the OT in Genesis, it even refers to the animals as being souls (creatures). God also is a Soul albeit not a created Soul, "for if any man draws back, my Soul shall have no pleasure in him".

I also agree that the Holy Spirit is what the Bible calls "The Spirit of Christ" as well but it is referring to His God that dwelt within Jesus and through his Holy Spirit and through which he was the anointed one, it doesn't refer to any part of Jesus' substance or ontology.

Jesus emptied himself of his own self as a man in the form of God and he did this in order that the Father would be revealed within and through him instead of himself.

Therefore the character and personality that we see in Jesus within the gospel records, is that of the Father who was dwelling within him and working within him and through him and not Jesus himself as the human male that God sent the seed of into the womb of Mary.

Jesus even explained this to us very clearly first in these passages below.

John 12:
45 The one who looks at me is seeing the one who sent me. 46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47 “If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.
50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.” Then he made this even clearer yet in John 14:8-10

John 14:8-10​

New International Version​

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Notice in verse 10, Jesus gives the real reason why when they saw him they saw the Father and why his words where not coming from himself but rather the Father.


Notice also, that he didn't say this because he was God himself but only because God the Father was dwelling within him and revealing himself through Jesus and that was because Jesus emptied himself of his own identity and personality in order that the Father instead would be revealed through him.
How exactly is the Father dwelling in the Son? Did The Father climb up in the Son? Or is more closer to the truth that the Word Himself proceeds?

This man the Christ is not the Son of God on account of this flesh these bones and this blood , this man the Christ is the Son of God because He is God own consubstantial Word Himself proceeding in the likeness of sinful flesh.

It follows the Father is in the Son by reason of the Son having life Himself to even say," I am in the Father and the Father is in me".

The Son materially or immaterially is the express manifest visible Image of the invisible God. To show the unity and undividedness between the Father and the Son scriptures call Him the Word/Wisdom of God.

No anti Trinitarian theological suppositions you assert can NEGATE the scriptural fact that," The Logos/Word is divine life in itself by itself". And He Himself said," I Am the way the truth and the life no man come to the Father save by me".

Alan......
 

zerinus

Active member
Scripture says that man has all 3.

1 Thessalonians 5:23

23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Paul is speaking rhetorically. Do you have any other examples from scripture to back that up? I can quote lots of scriptures to support my interpretation. You only have this one example from a very controversial biblical writer Paul. I think that my interpretation wins.
 

zerinus

Active member
Actually Paul is only using the word soul as what connects the spirit with the body to make the total human being and which is a soul and that is why it is in the middle between spirit and body also.

For man as spirit and body together is one living soul, but he isn't three parts and that wasn't Paul's intention in what he said either. Just go back to Genesis, for after God created man's body from the dust of the ground, he breathed into his nostrils and he became a living soul.

Notice, it doesn't say that he had a soul but that the spirit and the body together is what made him a living soul instead.
Agreed. Valid point.
 
How exactly is the Father dwelling in the Son? Did The Father climb up in the Son? Or is more closer to the truth that the Word Himself proceeds?

This man the Christ is not the Son of God on account of this flesh these bones and this blood , this man the Christ is the Son of God because He is God own consubstantial Word Himself proceeding in the likeness of sinful flesh.

It follows the Father is in the Son by reason of the Son having life Himself to even say," I am in the Father and the Father is in me".

The Son materially or immaterially is the express manifest visible Image of the invisible God. To show the unity and undividedness between the Father and the Son scriptures call Him the Word/Wisdom of God.

No anti Trinitarian theological suppositions you assert can NEGATE the scriptural fact that," The Logos/Word is divine life in itself by itself". And He Himself said," I Am the way the truth and the life no man come to the Father save by me".

Alan......

John 14:8-10​

New International Version​

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Notice in verse 10, Jesus gives the real reason why when they saw him they saw the Father and why his words where not coming from himself but rather the Father.



Notice also, that he didn't say this because he was God himself but only because God the Father was dwelling within him and revealing himself through Jesus and that was because Jesus emptied himself of his own identity and personality in order that the Father instead would be revealed through him.



Oh really? Well being you believe that the Jews were correct that when Jesus called himself God's Son and God his Father it meant that he was God himself or equal to it, suppose you show us just exactly where they got this from God's own word in their own OT scriptures then?

For if they didn't get it from their own OT scriptures, where did they get it from?

The answer is that they got it from their real Father the Devil and just like Jesus told them, for he twisted the truth of the OT, so that they would feel justified for having Jesus crucified and when the real reason was that they hated him for exposing them as hypocrites in front of all the people.

For David was declared to be the Son of God by God himself first in Psalm 2:7 and then after him it was Solomon his son in 2 Samuel 7:14 and those rebellious religious and apostate Jews knew this also.

For they understood what it really meant also, that the one called the Son of God was God's human heir from the descendants of David and just like he promised about it through the prophet's.

Therefore their own OT scriptures really revealed that the Son of God was not one who would be co equal with God or of God's own substance and nature but rather his anointed human heir to his throne and first over his people Israel and then also over all nations and creation as well.

Now we know why Psalm 2:7 and 2 Samuel 7:14 were also applied to Jesus by the writer of Hebrews in Hebrews 1:5 and also what they truly mean, for they don't mean that he is literally God's Son like you trins falsely teach about it.

For what they truly mean, is that Jesus is the final and greatest human heir of God and from David's descendants that would rule all nations with a rod of iron as God promised to David and Israel. .

The Son has life in himself because he is God huh?

Well suppose you explain then what Jesus meant by what he said in the following two verses then.

John 5:26 For just as the Father has life in himself SO HE HAS GIVEN UNTO THE SON TO HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF ALSO.

John 6:57 For just as The Living Father has sent me and, I LIVE BECAUSE OF THE FATHER, so he who eats of me shall live because of me.

As far as your false doctrine about what John meant in John 1:1-18, the very words of Jesus who taught John refutes your false doctrine on that chapter, and he does this with the two scriptures I already posted above and also in the words of his prayer in John 17:3.


John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent"

I wont get into what John truly meant in John 1:1-18 tonight because it is too late and I am too tired right now and so I will save it for another time.

I will give you this hint however, for to understand correctly what John meant when he said, "and the Logos was God", the full definition of the word Logos at the time John wrote this reveals in what manor the Logos was God.

That and the fact that the word Logos was never defined as a living person before it became flesh through the birth of Jesus and the word appears many times in the NT to prove this also.
 
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The Spirit of Christ actually refers to the Spirit of God through which he was anointed and filled with God's presence and it is not referring to his own spirit as being a man and yes he is 100% man and which reveals that he couldn't possibly be both God and man either.

For in order for him to be 100% man, he would have to be 100% what every man is in his nature and I am not talking about his moral disposition but his ontology, for Jesus was just like Adam before he sinned.

1 John 4:1-4 tells us that we must confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh and that means we must confess him as coming in what the Bible reveals flesh to be and not what the apostate churches would tell us it can be instead.

For no flesh as the Bible reveals what flesh is, is 100% flesh and also 100% God, for there is no such thing.


Romans 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
The pre-incarnate is the Lord in the OT.
Jesus is David’s , Isaiah, Abraham, Jacob, Elijah’s Lord. Etc and Etc.
Mal 3
1 ¶ Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
 
The pre-incarnate is the Lord in the OT.
Jesus is David’s , Isaiah, Abraham, Jacob, Elijah’s Lord. Etc and Etc.
Mal 3
1 ¶ Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Most assuredly all of them recognized through prophecy and vision that God would make Jesus their Lord (kurios) and savior indeed.


Acts 2:22-36​

New International Version​

22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:
“‘I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will rest in hope,
27 because you will not abandon me to the realm of the dead,
you will not let your holy one see decay.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.’
29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’
36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”



Therefore the Lord Jesus that David saw in a prophetic vision always before him, God made to be both Lord and Christ and therefore his being Lord was not because he was God and neither did David believe this about him either, for Peter makes that as clear as the midday Sun in that last verse 36 above.

Now concerning Malachi and Yahweh coming to his Temple, indeed Yahweh did, for Yahweh was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself on every opportunity and verse 22 of the above very clearly reveals that the miracles done when Jesus came, were done through him by Yahweh God and not done by him.

Therefore wherever Jesus Yahweh's human Temple went, so did Yahweh, are you getting the picture yet?


John 14:10 The words that I speak, I speak not of myself,
IT IS THE FATHER WHO DWELLS WITHIN ME, HE IS DOING THE WORKS.


It simply couldn't have been made any clearer and therefore you trins are without any excuse. .
 
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Yes.

Man is bipartite, not tripartite; and Jesus is no different. Man has a body and a spirit. Those are the only two parts that make man. The word soul is not something distinct or separate from his spirit or body. The word "soul" is sometimes used in scripture as a synonym for a spirit, and sometimes it is used to refer to the entire person, body and spirit combined. But there is no such thing as a "soul" distinct from a man's body and spirit.

The "Spirit of Christ" used in scripture refers to the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost), which is the divine influence that proceeds from him as a divine being, It is not the same as either his body or his spirit, which combined make up his person.

Jesus is no different from us as far as his body and spirit is concerned. He only begins to differ as far as his divinity is concerned; and the Holy Spirit which proceeds from him is an attribute of his divinity.
So...how do you SEE Jesus' divinity? As...the OUSIA shared with...the Father sir?
 
To all: Hebrews 4:12 says that there is a division between soul and spirit. If nothing else can be ascertained from this verse, we can say with confidence that the soul and the spirit are not the same thing.

Biblically, what we refer to as the spirit seems to be air with intelligence. The soul is something harder to define.
 
Paul is speaking rhetorically. Do you have any other examples from scripture to back that up? I can quote lots of scriptures to support my interpretation. You only have this one example from a very controversial biblical writer Paul. I think that my interpretation wins.
I didn't see you post any scripture to back it up. Also, Paul didn't write 1 Thessalonians, God did.
 

zerinus

Active member
So...how do you SEE Jesus' divinity? As...the OUSIA shared with...the Father sir?
That is a separate issue from whether man is bipartite or tripartite, and whether Jesus was like man in that respect or different, which is what is being discussed at the moment.
 
That is a separate issue from whether man is bipartite or tripartite, and whether Jesus was like man in that respect or different, which is what is being discussed at the moment.
Man is multifarious. Gut golly, get some acumen sir. TRIpartite? You want to PART THE ASPECTS of man, you can get into the TENS of stuff sir. This is in fact the MODERN way to go sir.

Besides the soul and spirit...there is in the Bible the HEART which is analogous to MIND, and then there's the MIND. If you want to go BEYOND the Bible, there is the em...conscience (akin to spirit) and the awareness (akin to seeing/hearing), and the unconscious awareness. Etc.
 

zerinus

Active member
To all: Hebrews 4:12 says that there is a division between soul and spirit. If nothing else can be ascertained from this verse, we can say with confidence that the soul and the spirit are not the same thing.
That depends on whom you ask! The most commonly used definition of "soul" in the Bible is with reference to the whole person, body and spirit combined. Examples are too numerous quote them all, the following is a selection:

Genesis 2:

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 12:

5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls [servants] that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

• • •
13 Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.

Genesis 17:

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Genesis 46:

15 These be the sons of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob in Padanaram, with his daughter Dinah: all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three.

• • •
18 These are the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah his daughter, and these she bare unto Jacob, even sixteen souls.
• • •
22 These are the sons of Rachel, which were born to Jacob: all the souls were fourteen.
• • •
25 These are the sons of Bilhah, which Laban gave unto Rachel his daughter, and she bare these unto Jacob: all the souls were seven.
26 All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob's sons' wives, all the souls were threescore and six;
27 And the sons of Joseph, which were born him in Egypt, were two souls: all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten.

Exodus 12:

4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.

Isaiah 51:

23 But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over.


The following verses equate "soul" with spirit:

Genesis 35:

18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

Isaiah 10:

18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standard-bearer fainteth.

Micah 6:

7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

Matthew 10:

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


And these verses identify man as being composed only of a body and spirit:

1 Corinthians 6:

20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 7:

34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

Ephesians 4:

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Biblically, what we refer to as the spirit seems to be air with intelligence. The soul is something harder to define.
Not true. See above.
 
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