Quran is too negative

Lee Magee

Member
Nowhere in any narrative in the Torah, is it mention that people will be put into fire, but throughout the Quran, it is. In the story of Noah in Genesis, nowhere is it mention the drowned were put into a fire, but the Quran authors decided that drowning wasn't enough, so those drowned people were put into a fire.

Nuh 71: 25
Because of their sins they were drowned and put into the Fire, and they found not for themselves besides Allah helpers.

Does this includes everybody that drowned, including women and children?

Nuh 71: 26
Noah had prayed, “My Lord! Do not leave a single disbeliever on earth.

In the very first verse of the Koran, it says "Allah ... the Most Merciful".
- Mercy - compassion or forgiveness shown towards someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm.

This is a contradiction, how can he be "most merciful" and allow people to drown for thought crimes, since "disbelieving" is just a thought.
 

Lee Magee

Member
I have the feeling that all the negative passages in the Koran, which refer to fire, gnashing of teeth or Jahannam, to be interpolations, probably added later. They have no reason to be there at all.
 

sk0rpi0n

Active member
Nowhere in any narrative in the Torah, is it mention that people will be put into fire, but throughout the Quran, it is. In the story of Noah in Genesis, nowhere is it mention the drowned were put into a fire, but the Quran authors decided that drowning wasn't enough, so those drowned people were put into a fire.

Nuh 71: 25
Because of their sins they were drowned and put into the Fire, and they found not for themselves besides Allah helpers.

Does this includes everybody that drowned, including women and children?

Read the previous verses to get the context. The verse you cited is talking about the specific people (rulers and elites) who called on people to hold on to their false gods. They drowned (along with everyone else) and were then put into the fire.

Noah said: "O my Lord! They have disobeyed me, but they follow (men) whose wealth and children give them no increase but only Loss. "And they have devised a tremendous Plot. "And they have said (to each other), Abandon not your gods: Abandon neither Wadd nor Suwa, neither Yaguth nor Yauq, nor Nasr; "They have already misled many; and grant Thou no increase to the wrong-doers but in straying (from their mark)." Because of their sins they were drowned (in the flood), and were made to enter the Fire (of Punishment): and they found- in lieu of Allah- none to help them. (71:21-25)

In the very first verse of the Koran, it says "Allah ... the Most Merciful".
- Mercy - compassion or forgiveness shown towards someone whom it is within one's power to punish or harm.

This is a contradiction, how can he be "most merciful" and allow people to drown for thought crimes, since "disbelieving" is just a thought.

It's not a contradiction. In Islam, God's mercy is reserved for those who believe in Him and obey Him.
 

Lee Magee

Member
In the Book of Genesis, no where does it say the drowning was because of polytheism or the worship other gods, nor does it state this in any other flood-accounts.

In the Greek flood, Zeus flooded the earth because the king of Arcadia killed his own young son and served the boy’s cooked flesh.

Allah also throws the wife of Noah into fire, for the crime of being female.

At-Tahrim 66:10
Allah sets forth an example for the disbelievers: the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. Each was married to one of Our righteous servants, yet betrayed them.1 So their husbands were of no benefit to them against Allah whatsoever. Both were told, “Enter the Fire, along with the others!”

The wife of Deucalion was Pyrrha (πυρρός) which means "flame coloured, the colour of fire", perhaps the reason the Koran turns the wife into fire. The wife of Noah in the Bible is unnamed, but in the Book of Jubilees, she is called Amzara, henceforth Amzurah according to Islamic tradition.

Adataneses > Arbasisah (wife of Japheth)
Naelatamauk > Nahlab (wife of Ham)
Sedeqetelebab > Salib (wife of Shem)
 

Littlefoot`

Active member
This is a contradiction, how can he be "most merciful" and allow people to drown for thought crimes, since "disbelieving" is just a thought.

It's the same contradiction that the christian god has. It's really only a problem if you're trying to argue a problem for one and not the other.
 

akay

New Member
Every human being is responsible for his actions
Whether it's good or bad before God
God is not responsible for man's choice
the way of evil
God is merciful and justice



God gave us life and everything for humans
What did you do to earn the grace of God?
Just to test God
You complain and deny the grace of God


Everyone on earth is tested by God
This does not negate his mercy


You now recognize that God does not force anyone to believe and has left you free to choose of your own free will.



but we decide to a great extent what our future will be, that is free will. Afterwards, what will happen will happen. Islam recognizes in the human being a creature able to understand the content of the revealed truth, and to welcome it according to his own will.

It is true that every action you do is written by God in advance, but it is your choice.

Faith is associated with good deeds and avoiding taboos, not just faith

Hell and heaven exist, but it's your choice that determines your place in one of them.


لماذا يسمح الإله بالمعاناة والابتلاءات في العالم؟ | زوار يسألون الشيخ عثمان​


Why does God allow suffering and trials in the world? | Visitors ask Sheikh Othman












there is only One True God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be “Abrahamic Faiths”, and all of them are also classified as “monotheistic.” However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas. Islam calls upon people to return to the one true God and to worship and obey Him alone. Islam teaches that God should be approached without intermediaries. That is because the merciful all-knowing God is completely in control of everything that exists and that He can bestow His grace and mercy on His creatures as He pleases; therefore no intercession, atonement or incarnation is necessary.

is belief enough 1 من هو إلهك ؟








is belief enough 2 من هو إلهك ؟


is belief enough 3 من هو إلهك ؟

 
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Lee Magee

Member
The belief of Hell and Heaven in Abrahamic religion are allusions to the grave.

Genesis 25:10
there was Abraham buried

The dead are buried underground, in accordance to the ancient near eastern tradition, this underground is Sheol or Hades and in Arabic, Jannah (جَنّة) from דומה = δῶμ᾽ Ἀΐδαο "House of Hades". cf. σῆμα "grave" > שמיא > οὐρανός "heaven"
 

akay

New Member
Hell is found in the Abrahamic religions



33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? "(Matthew 23.33)

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. ”(Matthew 25,41)

22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[a] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[c] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.”(Matthew 5,22)

29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
"(Matthew 5,29-30)

All of these verses make it clear that an everlasting and painful retribution awaits unbelievers in a place where there will be gnashing of teeth and weeping. It would be better to cut off eyes, hands or feet than to have to undergo this terrible punishment intended for the ungodly.

As we see, eternal hell is a reality in the Bible. Those who dispute this reality have only to contradict us on the matter and surely they will never succeed. The verses are explicit on the matter. Now we can ask ourselves several remarks:


1) hell in the N.T. much more than in the A.T.

2) the wicked will suffer an eternal and exemplary punishment for their misdeeds

3) how does this very particular category of Christians reconcile their conception of Love with the eternal punishment of hell?

4) Christians are hypocrites when they tell us the "good news" of the Gospel because there is also very, very bad news in the texts for non-believers


Prabhakaran Asks Dr Zakir, "Will Non Muslims go to Heaven or Hell?"

Will Good Righteous Non-Muslims like Mother Teresa go to Hell? - Dr Zakir Naik​

Q&A: Why Would God Create Us to Go To Hell? | Dr. Shabir Ally



دينكم ليس ضد العنصرية! محمد حجاب في حوار مع مسيحي

 
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Lee Magee

Member
One must be reminded that "Hell" is an English word and comes from Hel, the underworld of Norse mythology, therefore the word isn't relevant to Greco-Near Eastern writings.

Mat 23:33
Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
ὄφεις γεννήματα ἐχιδνῶν πῶς φύγητε ἀπὸ τῆς κρίσεως τῆς γεέννης

Hell here is γεέννης (géenna), sounds familiar to an Arab, for this derives جَنّة (janna), ultimately from בני הנם "Hinnom valley", a real place in Palestine. ἀπὸ τῆς κρίσεως means "from the judgement"

cf, Ancient Greeks believed that upon death, an individual would enter the realm of Hades, the Greek underworld, and be judged by King Minos, Aeacus, and Radamanthus
 

Lee Magee

Member
P1 -Why Hell!? ! Hashim Vs Pantheist | Speakers Corner | Hyde Park


A non-educated street preacher wouldn't know anything about the Ancient Near East world from which the Quran Bible came from and why are Muslims saying the word "Hell", thereby evoking a Norse underworld goddess.
 

akay

New Member
The Torah, the Gospels and Islam are messages from God

But after the Torah and the Gospels were destroyed, God sent the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him To correct the previous books through the Quran

Islam is the last message for all Even after the return of Christ, he will rule according to Islamic law as the prophet of God and not a god or the son of God





The Holy Qur’an speaks only about scientific facts not myths so the researcher must know that the discovered scientific fact which is a miracle in Qur’an or Sunnah should not be known when Qur’an was descended. On the other hand we have to know that there are many known facts in Qur’an from past times like benefits of honey which is a known fact from thousands of years, but He Almighty included this fact in the Holy book of Qur’an as a proof that this book includes only right facts because people during years of civilizations used to mix facts with myths and legends. Therefore if Qur’an is a human made, we might find mixes of right and wrong facts inside it.




We have to know that the one who descended Qur’an is the same one who created universe who is Allah Almighty, so it is impossible that Allah create things in a way and to tell us about these things in a different way in His book.

Therefore, we will find a complete conformance between scientific facts and the Qur’an if we understood both of them in the right way. Hence, if the science is in conformance with the verse so science is right and if not the science is definitely wrong. He Almighty says: (Do they not then consider the Qur’an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction.){Sûrat An-Nisâ’- The Women-verse82}



The strongest evidence that the Quran is not (and will not be) distorted is that Allaah The Exalted challenged His creation to produce the likes of it; then He challenged them to produce ten chapters only and finally challenged them to produce even a single chapter. Today, this challenge remains open. If the Quran is fabricated, why can they not even produce a single chapter and defeat their enemy?








Dr. Yoshihide Kozai is Professor Emeritus at Tokyo University, Hongo, Tokyo, Japan, and was the Director of the National Astronomical Observatory, Mitaka, Tokyo, Japan. He said:

“I am very much impressed by finding true astronomical facts in [the] Quran, and for us the modern astronomers have been studying very small pieces of the universe. We’ve concentrated our efforts for understanding of very small part. Because by using telescopes, we can see only very few parts [of] the sky without thinking [about the] whole universe. So, by reading [the] Quran and by answering to the questions, I think I can find my future way for investigation of the universe.”


Professor Tejatat Tejasen is the Chairman of the Department of Anatomy at Chiang Mai University, Chiang Mai, Thailand. Previously, he was the Dean of the Faculty of Medicine at the same university. During the Eighth Saudi Medical Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Professor Tejasen stood up and said:

“During the last three years, I became interested in the Quran . . . . From my study and what I have learned from this conference, I believe that everything that has been recorded in the Quran fourteen hundred years ago must be the truth, that can be proved by the scientific means. Since the Prophet Muhammad could neither read nor write, Muhammad must be a messenger who relayed this truth, which was revealed to him as an enlightenment by the one who is eligible [as the] creator.



القرآن الكريم والعلم الحديث كاملة The Quran and Modern Science full Zakir naik youtube


The Qur'an Or The Bible? Which Is God's Word? - YouTube
 

Lee Magee

Member
The Quran was written by anonymous authors, no one knows who wrote it.

Surah 5.110
How I taught you writing, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel.

Quran says the that the interpretation of the Torah became distorted, rather then the text itself.
 

akay

New Member
This is your opinion, not the opinion of the scholars who confirmed the authenticity of the Qur’an with scientific and historical evidence
Don't talk ignorantly to waste time

The Qur’an refers to the sacred books in the time of the prophets were authentic

But now these books are distorted and the Qur’an corrects their distortion

Either in the text or interpretation

God says in the Qur’an

(41) O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief – of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you.[264] They distort words beyond their [proper] places [i.e., usages], saying, "If you are given this,[265] take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allāh intends fitnah[266] - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allāh. Those are the ones for whom Allāh does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.



The Qur’an is a revelation from God according to the testimony of scholars


The Quran has been memorized
Because God saved the Quran from changing
The predicate is connected
And the writers of the Koran are known generation after generationThe Holy Qur’an was written directly
and hadith

From the mouth of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him
so
The Quran was written by the Companions of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him

And the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was aliveThere were also known eyewitnesses
So
The original message is fully preserved until nowOn the contrary
The Bible was not recorded directly

But
After 300 years after the Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him

Bible verses are written down

Without trustworthy witnesses

Because they were not present at the time of Jesus, peace be upon him

Even the Old Testament was written down
One thousand years after the death of the Prophet moses peace be upon him


Of course, the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, does not speak except by inspiration from God
God says in the Qur’an
Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination.
It is not but a revelation revealed,



When do you plan to stop bearing false witness?



We all know the Quran today is exactly as it was revealed.

We literally have 1400 year old Quran's to verify it, not to mention its always been an oral tradition. Millions today can recite the Quran cover to cover from MEMORY and it has always been this way.

I frequently point out all those who hate Islam today can't find the ability to change a single letter. Look at China, a nation of a BILLION. They have went on record saying they will write there own Quran and this was how many years ago? Where is it?

And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. (2:23 Quran)

1400 years and many haters of Islam have lived and died. Where is their Quran? Why do we only have one Quran today?
Why has EVERY generation failed to produce one surah


To this day there is one Quran. In the original language that it was revealed in.



Indeed God has claimed in the Quran kareem that He himself protects it and we see the proof of this today.








Compare this to the 20,000 changes!! in Bibles today. So many you yourself have to select specific versions.



Why are we not surprised? After all, even the gospel authors are unknown. In fact, they’re anonymous. Biblical scholars rarely, if ever, ascribe gospel authorship to Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. As Ehrman tells us, “Most scholars today have abandoned these identifications, and recognize that the books were written by otherwise unknown but relatively well-educated Greek-speaking (and writing) Christians during the second half of the first century. Graham Stanton affirms, “The gospels, unlike most Graeco-Roman writings, are anonymous. The familiar headings which give the name of an author (‘The Gospel according to …’)



The Bible has been changed and changed and mistranslation are 2 completely different things. Don't the 10 commandments forbid lying? Why is it that so many Christians try to deceive? Honestly it is changed even today as we live and breathe.

The truth is you worship a man who is constantly referred to as prophet in your book. A man who literally cried to God to save him in your book. A man who literally worshiped God in your book.



see here



Oldest version of the Quran at the University of Birmingham - YouTube


You will be shocked when you watch this video
FULL - Dr. Zakir Naik The Quran and the Bible in the Light of Science vs Dr William Campbell
 
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Lee Magee

Member
The Qur’an refers to the sacred books in the time of the prophets were authentic

Torah and Quran are both written in Semitic language which are abjad (أبجد), this is probably the reason Koran specifies the Torah, since its very easy to misinterpret Semitic text. Same is true with the Quran, which was originally written without diacritics, so one doesn't need to change the text but the diacritics, in other words the entire Quran is subject to interpretation. Major flaw with Semitic mythology.

Greek mythology does not have this problem, Homer's Odyssey written around 8-9th century BCE and is perfectly preserved, without distortion.
 

akay

New Member
the Quran is not like the distorted Bible written by unknown humans
Therefore, you find criticism and analysis according to their own opinion in churches
Therefore, this is not a problem, because it is the book of mankind and not the book of God.

You can edit and change the meaning of verses with ease

and don't be ashamed to say it's the book of god



But in the Quran there are controls and standards
there is a difference between an interpretation based on faith and one based on serious study.

One of the scholars cannot criticize the words of God or criticize the words of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him
But the interpretation of the Quran is according to what God said in the Quran and according to what the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said



If the opinion of one of the scholars contradicts the words of God and His Messenger, his words are not taken into account

The Quran does not depend on people's false words


2-







. And Jesus himself was very clear about the Old Testament, the prophets, and the primary laws
Jesus was very clear that he would not change any of the teachings of the laws in the Old Testament. Rather, he adds to that by saying that Christians have to follow these laws literally, until the Day of Judgment.


That was in the time of Christ
But now the Old Testament and the New Testament are corrupted




The language of the Qur’an is Arabic


Jesus own language of Aramaic, which is a Semitic language, an eastern language similar to Hebrew and Arabic. The original extant copies of the gospels are in Greek, a western language. Now there are four gospels, supposed to have been written by four of the disciples of Jesus: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Was Jesus quoting, from these Greek books, written many years after his disappearance when he was addressing his people? Certainly not! He was quoting from the Book he received from God, which was the original Bible in the language of his own people. The argument that God revealed his Bible to Jesus in Greek is like saying that God revealed the Qur’an to Muhammad in English!


So the original Gospel was not in Greek, it was in the language Jesus and his people spoke and understood. We have no record or evidence to indicate that; this original Gospel was written down by scribes under Jesus’s own supervision. I repeat: We have no original Gospel existing now as a single volume, in the original language. Every educated Christian must know this fact! (Those who are in doubt can go to the Jerome Biblical Commentary,






3-





We must acknowledge that the Noble Qur’an was revealed to the beloved Muhammad, in an era whose companions were known for their eloquence, , and mastery of the correct Arabic language.

Hence, the need to diacritics was not needed at the time of the revelation of the Holy Qur’an, but after a not short period of time, pointing and diacritics were placed on the letters to make it easier for the common people to read in the Noble Qur’an.
The Prophet would recite the Qur’an to his companions, and they would write it down and memorize it orally according to the Prophet’s pronunciation of the Qur’an

, and the Arabic of the period did not use vowel symbols or diacritics to distinguish between the consonants that are similar in form. When Islam had spread over vast territories and lands and various non-Arab nations had converted to the Islamic faith, the vowel symbols and diacritical marks were introduced in order to ease the reading of the Qur’an.


In the beginning, many people were not pleased with such diacritics and vowel symbols that were seen as foreign elements to the mushafs. But, over the course of time, the necessity of such elements has become clear and their use has become common.


. There was no need for the diacritics in the early period of Islam as almost all the reciters of Quran were native Arab and were fluent in Arabic language. They could understand and recite the Quran written in simple form. During the era of second and third Caliph Umar Ibn Khattab and Usman Ibn Affan, Islamic State spread from Arabian Peninsula to Persia, parts of India and China, and to North Africa. As many non-Arabs accepted Islam errors in recitation of Quran begin to appear. They lack the natural grasp of Arabic language like that of native Arabs due to this they face big problems in correct recitation of Quran. For example in Quran Chapter: 9 verse: 3
“Annal-laaha baree-um minal-mushrikeenawa rasooluh”
“Verily, Allah and His Messenger are free from (any obligation) to the idolaters.”

This minute change in recitation of kasrah instead of dammah in word rasooluh, which could not be distinguished in the written text could cause the verse to mean “Verily Allah is free from (any obligation) to the idolaters and His Messenger.” (Philips, 1997)
This change the meaning of the verse completely a native Arabic speaker would understand it but to a non-Arab it would be very difficult. It was due to this reason diacritic, vowel and punctuations were added to the Quran so that the non-Arabs could recite the text correctly and can improve their understanding.





Myths are nonsense that has no basis
 
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Lee Magee

Member
Are you trying to say, that the authors of the Quran had access to an original Aramaic gospel written in 1st century Palestine? So how come it is not included in the Koran?

Jesus of the Koran is similar to the Jesus in the Gnostic gospels.

Surah 5:110
How you moulded a bird from clay and breathed into it and it became a bird

The Infancy Gospel of Thomas 3
This little child Jesus when he was five years old was playing at the ford of a brook: and he gathered together the waters that flowed there into pools, and made them straightway clean, and commanded them by his word alone. And having made soft clay, he fashioned thereof twelve sparrows

In the Quran, Jesus makes a bird out of clay before giving it life, how is he able to something the Quran ascribes to Allah?

not the book of God.

What does "book of God" actually mean? Is that a book written by God, or a book written by people describing a God?

The original Quran is long gone, what we have are copies of copies. Are you saying the Quran is 100% immune to copyist errors and deliberate or unintentional changes. Does Allah supernaturally correct an altered Quran?

The books of the Old Testament is far older then Quran, about 800 years older. Say the Quran was written in 600 BCE, no way it be perfecly preserved today, in fact Ancient Semites wrote on the skins of sheep and goats, which don't last a long time hence the reason we don't have a vast library of writings from the ancient near east (Palestine, Syria, Lebanon).

Those animal skins they wrote on are called διφθέρας that derives دَفْتَر (daftar) "notebook; copybook;".
 

akay

New Member
It is naive to say that Islam is a combination of Jewish and Christian information

The Old and New Testaments were devastating
In terms of doctrine and scientific errors


the Bible
It was later translated into many languages, but it was only a thousand years after the advent of the Prophet that it was adapted into Arabic.

Therefore, the companions of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, cannot

that they be bilingual or polyglot, that he handle Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Syriac, the Coptic or the Gothic and let him hide it with such great dexterity from the eyes of the whole world.


The Qur’an contains the events of the past, present and future
The only possible answer is that God is inspired.to the Prophet Muhammad Peace be Upon Him




The Islamic belief about Jesus demystifies for us who the real Jesus was. Jesus in Islam was an extraordinary individual, chosen by God as a Prophet and sent to the Jewish people. He never preached that he himself was God or the actual son of God. He was miraculously born without a father, and he performed many amazing miracles such as healing the blind and the lepers and raising the dead – all by God’s permission. Muslims believe that Jesus will return before the day of Judgement to bring justice and peace to the world. This Islamic belief about Jesus is similar to the belief of some of the early Christians. In the Quran,

The truth is that Jesus preached the same message that the Prophets in the Old Testament preached. There is a passage in the Bible which really emphasizes his core message. A man came to Jesus and asked “Which is the first commandment of all?”Jesus answered, “The first of all the commandments is Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.’’[Mark 12:28-29]. So the greatest commandment, the most important belief according to Jesus is that God is one. If Jesus was God he would have said ‘I am God, worship me’, but he didn’t. He merely repeated a verse from the Old Testament confirming that God is One.




. WAS THE QUR'AN COPIED FROM THE BIBLE? - DR ZAKIR NAIK


هل أقتبس القران من الكتاب المقدس ؟ احمد ديدات يصعق شروش YouTube




Sheikh Ahmed Deedat vs Sjoberg - Is Jesus God? [Debate]

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1,500-year-old Quran manuscript may be oldest known copy







Recently radiocarbon dated copy of the 7th century Quran at the University of Birmingham.A 1,500-year-old parchment may be one of the oldest known copies of the Qur'an, possibly dating back to a time that straddled the life of the Prophet Muhammad, according to researchers who recently dated the fragments of the manuscript.



The text was radiocarbon dated, which measured the age of organic materials from the find. Researchers at the University of Birmingham, UK, found that the sheets of parchment dated back to AD 568 and AD 645.

Susan Worrall, director of special collections at the University of Birmingham, said in a statement.

"Radiocarbon dating has delivered an exciting result, which contributes significantly to our understanding of the first written copies of the Quran",



The Prophet Muhammad is said to have lived between AD 570 and 632 and, according to Muslim tradition, he received the revelations that make up the Quran between AD 610 and 632.These sheets date back to the end of the 6th or the beginning of the 7th century. They were discovered in the library of the University of Birmingham where they had been kept for almost 100 years without anyone suspecting their age.



see here

Oldest version of the Quran at the University of Birmingham - YouTube


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But the Old and New Testaments are distorted now






Evidence proves this
The fact is there are 40,000 Christian sects. We can fill a football stadium with Christians, every one of them can have different beliefs. Every one of them calling themselves Christian. Every one of them having Different beliefs then you.
Can you not wrap your head around how insane this is?

How anyone can argue the Bible is not changed today is amazing honestly. Seriously, they literally continue to change it even today!

Consider the prophets, some who actually spoke to God, committing incest and worshiping idols.


“’How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Jeremiah 8:8)



20,000 changes!!
Why do you chose to live in denial? What does the Bible say about bearing false witness?
we are at a point where Biblical scholars say the Bible is changed.




Indeed the Bible remains but how much of it is original? I can personally guarantee God did not give the Jews permission to lend on interest.

While whats in it that is original, how much of that is ignored? Such as 32 separate verses forbidding the consumption of pork?


How about all those verses where Jesus says he can do nothing but still you ascribe divinity to him?
90 Biblical verses refute your core beliefs Red. God is not the author of confusion.


Im not surprised . Go back to 300 AD and the council of Nicea declared the prophet Jesus to be god incarnate. Shouldering right up with other pagan, 3 in 1 faiths in the vicinity.

This was the day when the devil took the reigns.. So why would i be surprised that 1700 years later there are more then 2000 Bibles?

Wanna hear something interesting ? Did you know Jews are allowed to pray in a masjid... But are forbidden to pray in a church?

. Jews consider you pagan and thier prayers to the God of Abraham would not be accepted if offered in a church.

Facinating. Isnt it? Kinda like you with your Christmas tree while the Bible calls it futile.

People hear what they want to.
 

Lee Magee

Member
The Koran is one-book, best not to compare with the Old Testament, which is a collection of books, each book written at different times by different people.

Sure, maybe they are 20,000 changes in the Bible, but how would one know what as changed, if the original copies to compare with no longer exist. Does the Quran correct these changes? Why didn't Prophet Muhammad produce new versions of the Bible books?

This was the day when the devil took the reigns

Now you are being a polytheist, putting the blame on a supernatural entity called "devil", yet again another concept Islam recycled from the earlier Abrahamic religions, ultimately from Hellenism.

δια βάλλω > διάβολος = Devil, دجال (Dajjal)
ψιθυρίζω (وَسْوَسَة) > ψιθυριστής = شَيْطَان (Shaytan)


Christmas tree

Who created trees? How are "trees" pagan? They grow in the soil .

32 separate verses forbidding the consumption of pork?

They are 7.77 million species of animals on this planet and pigs (Sus domesticus) are one of them .

“We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Jeremiah 8:8)

Out of chronological context.
 

akay

New Member
there were no manuscripts of the Bible in the first hundred years after Christ
After the second century, scraps of very simple manuscripts were found

Therefore, we find the Bible without real manuscripts,



Jesus did not write the bible that was revealed by God. Not even was it written immediately after his departure. He did not order or desire at any time in his life to write anything on his behalf. Therefore, the Bible which is in circulation today is not a representation of Jesus' teachings.

Out of the total of 27 Books of the New Testament, more than half is authored by Paul. As opposed to Paul, the Master has not written a single word of the twenty-seven books. If you can lay your hands on what is called "'A Red Letter Bible," you will find every word alleged to have been uttered by Jesus - in red ink and the rest in normal black ink. Don't be shocked to find that in this so called Gospel of Jesus, over ninety percent of the 27 Books of the New Testament is printed in black ink!





but
There are a few authentic verses from the Bible that do not contradict the sayings of the ancient prophets, and the words of the Prophet Jesus, and the words of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon them.
And we care about it



after the Torah and the Gospels were destroyed, God sent the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him To correct the previous books through the Quran



Previous prophets were sent to a particular group of people and their message was supposed to be followed for a particular time period. Since previous revelations were time-bound, God did not preserve them Himself.

the Quran cannot be compared with the previous Scriptures. The Quran is unique in many aspects. It is the final revelation to mankind. Previous scriptures were sent to their respective people only. The Quran is universal.

So God promised to protect the Quran

God says in the Qur’an
(9) Indeed, it is We who sent down the message [i.e., the Qur’ān], and indeed, We will be its guardian.




New Testament of the Bible regarding Jesus by Yusha ...

 
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