Rand Paul took down Fauci today...

Magdalena

Well-known member
Rand Paul is an eye doctor, who got COVID, like so many deniers, because he didn’t have the horse sense to avoid it.

Why would anyone listen to him about the vaccine? He is unqualified and already proven himself to be an idiot when it comes to the virus.
He survived it, like 99.8% of all people do.
 

Backup

Well-known member
He survived it, like 99.8% of all people do.
Gee, he lived, unlike 600,000+ American. I bet he’d rather get the pandemic again that win a free trip to Disney Land.

Your 99.8% figure must includep eople that never even got COVID, how incredibly disingenuous. Where did you get that from?
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Gee, he lived, unlike 600,000+ American. I bet he’d rather get the pandemic again that win a free trip to Disney Land.

Your 99.8% figure must includep eople that never even got COVID, how incredibly disingenuous. Where did you get that from?
One wonders why the same person was OK with the US government spending trillions of dollars to protect us from Islamic terrorism, after only 0.0009% of the public lost their lives in the tower collapse on 9/11...
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
It would be quite wrong to take the New Testament commands of Jesus to his church in such a way as believers would be so heavenly minded that they are of no earthly use. That was not the sum, substance, nor meaning of Jesus commands to his church.
Actually one makes himself of no earthly good to God if he tries to play God in something that God reveals from his word that is in his power alone like the appointment and removal of Kings and kingdoms and which then removes precious time from that person to do those things that God has revealed in his word are his business as a human being to be doing on this earth.

Therefore when one doesn't seek God from his word to determine the difference between what belongs to God alone and what he as a human being is suppose to be involved in on this earth, this is when he in his traditional worthless religion will became too heavenly minded that he is no earthly

Furthermore unlike you, I have scripture to support what I am saying about this and here it is below.


Daniel 2:20 and said:

“Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever;
wisdom and power are his.
21 He changes times and seasons;
he deposes kings and raises up others.

He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.
22 He reveals deep and hidden things;
he knows what lies in darkness,
and light dwells with him.
23 I thank and praise you, God of my ancestors:
You have given me wisdom and power,
you have made known to me what we asked of you,
you have made known to us the dream of the king.”

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


Daniel 4:17 “‘The decision is announced by messengers (the angels), the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of people.’




Daniel 4:
34 At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever.
His dominion is an eternal dominion;
his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
35 All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.

He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?”



Here is the question that you have to answer to, in whose power do the "times and seasons" belong for kings to be raised up or to be removed" and who does Daniel tell us is the one who makes this choice according to his own pleasure, you or God?


Notice that Daniel 4:35 says the people are regarded as nothing in respect of His choice and so he does what he pleases with this and that no one can hold back his hand or ask what have you done after he makes his choice.

Therefore, why do the apostate churches bother with the politics of this world and try to play God by attempting to change laws to force unbelievers to live righteous for God when laws can never change the hearts to make a permanent difference in this world anyhow?

Where do you have authority from the Bible to save the babies of the wicked also and after you save them from physical death in the womb and they grow up never believing the gospel message to suffer in the second death anyhow, what do you think you have really saved them from anyhow?

For Jesus himself told us that the majority will not believe the gospel message but only the minority and therefore that means the majority of any babies of the wicked that you save from physical death in the womb will end up lost to be destroyed in the lake of fire anyhow.

Furthermore, if God has appointed any of those babies of the wicked to be his elect according to his predestined plan, you can bet your bottom dollar that he himself and without your help will keep them from being aborted and Moses and Jesus are examples of this also.


So then, I have proven from the scriptures above that who reigns or is remove from reigning and the times and seasons for their reigns, is in God's power and not yours and therefore what you are doing involving yourself in it, is wasting time that should be better spend doing those things on this earth that do belong to you to be doing instead.

 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Rand Paul is an eye doctor, who got COVID, like so many deniers, because he didn’t have the horse sense to avoid it.

Why would anyone listen to him about the vaccine? He is unqualified and already proven himself to be an idiot when it comes to the virus.
The Chiner fru virus is smarter than you. Mr Virus goes thru a surgical mask like a mosquito goes thru a chain link fence.

Once again you remind us Alinsky ridicule is the only tool in your toolbox.
 

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
Actually one makes himself of no earthly good to God if he tries to play God in something that God reveals from his word that is in his power alone like the appointment and removal of Kings and kingdoms and which then removes precious time from that person to do those things that God has revealed in his word are his business as a human being to be doing on this earth.

Therefore when one doesn't seek God from his word to determine the difference between what belongs to God alone and what he as a human being is suppose to be involved in on this earth, this is when he in his traditional worthless religion will became too heavenly minded that he is no earthly

Furthermore unlike you, I have scripture to support what I am saying about this and here it is below.


Daniel 2:20 and said:

“Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever;
wisdom and power are his.
21 He changes times and seasons;

he deposes kings and raises up others.
He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.
22 He reveals deep and hidden things;
he knows what lies in darkness,
and light dwells with him.
23 I thank and praise you, God of my ancestors:
You have given me wisdom and power,
you have made known to me what we asked of you,
you have made known to us the dream of the king.”

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


Daniel 4:17 “‘The decision is announced by messengers (the angels), the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of people.’




Daniel 4:
34 At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever.
His dominion is an eternal dominion;
his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
35 All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?”



Here is the question that you have to answer to, in whose power do the "times and seasons" belong for kings to be raised up or to be removed" and who does Daniel tell us is the one who makes this choice according to his own pleasure, you or God?


Notice that Daniel 4:35 says the people are regarded as nothing in respect of His choice and so he does what he pleases with this and that no one can hold back his hand or ask what have you done after he makes his choice.

Therefore, why do the apostate churches bother with the politics of this world and try to play God by attempting to change laws to force unbelievers to live righteous for God when laws can never change the hearts to make a permanent difference in this world anyhow?

Where do you have authority from the Bible to save the babies of the wicked also and after you save them from physical death in the womb and they grow up never believing the gospel message to suffer in the second death anyhow, what do you think you have really saved them from anyhow?

For Jesus himself told us that the majority will not believe the gospel message but only the minority and therefore that means the majority of any babies of the wicked that you save from physical death in the womb will end up lost to be destroyed in the lake of fire anyhow.

Furthermore, if God has appointed any of those babies of the wicked to be his elect according to his predestined plan, you can bet your bottom dollar that he himself and without your help will keep them from being aborted and Moses and Jesus are examples of this also.


So then, I have proven from the scriptures above that who reigns or is remove from reigning and the times and seasons for their reigns, is in God's power and not yours and therefore what you are doing involving yourself in it, is wasting time that should be better spend doing those things on this earth that do belong to you to be doing instead.
So you use scripture to try to clobber Saints.

It is your sad self justification.

What is the name of your apostate denomination? You pretend to be expertise on apostates.

I have no problem with the wide spectrum of Church beliefs. On the other hand, Saints of the Living God have one thing in common, they will spend time on their knees and work out their salvation with fear and trembling in front of God
That makes you sad.

Our Bishop reminded us we can expect to see people we can't stand in Heaven.

You are trying to judge them out of Heaven.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
So you use scripture to try to clobber Saints.

It is your sad self justification.

What is the name of your apostate denomination? You pretend to be expertise on apostates.

I have no problem with the wide spectrum of Church beliefs. On the other hand, Saints of the Living God have one thing in common, they will spend time on their knees and work out their salvation with fear and trembling in front of God
That makes you sad.

Our Bishop reminded us we can expect to see people we can't stand in Heaven.

You are trying to judge them out of Heaven.
Nope but I do use it to bring correction to apostates who falsely believe that they are walking with God when they aren't and which is what I am using it for here also.

You better read 1 Corinthians 6 again, for while you want to judge those who are without, you are failing to make proper spiritual judgments on what is going on in your churches and here below is a word from God for you.


1 Corinthians 2:13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. 14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16 for,

“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”
But we (who are truly led by the Spirit) have the mind of Christ.


First notice, Paul is telling us that the Spirit led person judges all things and yet he himself cannot be judged by others because to judge him would be like one attempting to instruct God and whose mind he is being led by through the Spirit and the same Spirit that was also in Christ Jesus.

Now see how Paul goes on to put into practice that judgment concerning the Corinthians who were in divisions and divisions that also pale in comparison to the divisions you have in your apostate churches and not only one against another but also inside each one of them also.

1 Corinthians 3:1 Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans?

If you don't see this as especially applicable to what is happening among your church members right here on this forum, you must be blind as a bat, for all day long your own church members quarrel among themselves concerning the scriptures and reveal their obvious divisions and Paul does not down play this but reveals that those who do this are carnal and not spiritual.

Now if you go back to 1 Corinthians 2:13-16, Paul very clearly reveals that the reason why this is happening is because they are being led in the scriptures not by the wisdom and discernment of the Spirit of God but rather by their own carnal human wisdom and reason and which is why they are not able to come into a unity on the scriptures and what they are truly saying.

























 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
The Chiner fru virus is smarter than you. Mr Virus goes thru a surgical mask like a mosquito goes thru a chain link fence.

Once again you remind us Alinsky ridicule is the only tool in your toolbox.
EDITED BY MOD

EDITED BY MOD maybe you need another Bible lesson from 1 Corinthians chapters 8-10 and also a reminder that if you think you have your rights, what about Jesus who had no sin worthy of death but who sacrificed himself in death for the salvation of others.

I say this because your churches need to be ashamed of themselves for all of this belly aching that they do over wearing a mask and having to sacrifice some of their so called rights for the safety of others.

Maybe instead of thinking about your so called rights, you need to think about your witness as one who claims to be following the same Jesus who gave up his rights for the salvation of others.
 
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Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
I am not concerned about Pharisees like yourself with insults.
Selfish reasons. <<<< you are not a psychologist and can't read minds.

Remember some documented liar called Rand Paul. M.D. a dentist. Liars lie. Rand Paul wears a mask when performing eye surgery.



Don't waste my time with your extreme ignorance. I have work a mask (and sterile gown and gloves) in surgery 10,000 hours more than you and toni Fauchi combined.

Still afraid of naming your false denomination?
Sorry but Jesus said I would know them (the wolves in sheep's clothing) by their fruits and the fruit of false prophets are what comes out of their mouths or their words that reveal that they are not walking in the truth and therefore live in the selfishness of the flesh and that is my discernment and why I know what you are doing.

Wow, you are really simple aren't you dude?

For one isn't a liar just because he accidentally thought that Rand was a Dentist instead of an ophthalmologist, but one is a liar when he speaks something that is false while having the conviction that he is wrong about it in his heart.

Furthermore, if your time is being wasted, it is you who are wasting it, for you don't have to read or reply to my posts but the truth that I am speaking is eating you alive deep in your spirit and that is why you are replying to them and that is good also, for it should.

The only denominations that I have ever belonged to were mainstream Trinitarian denominations or inter denominations and never was I ever taught by any others either, and I belonged to them for better than 30 yeas of my being born again and faithfully went just about every time the doors were open and including home Bible studies endorsed by those churches as well.

I no longer belong to any denomination at all and what I believe now, I get from my own seeking out and asking of God for his truth from the scriptures while waiting upon him for the answers and keeping my own mind out of it in order to receive from the mind of God that is in the Spirit and which was also the mind of Christ Jesus likewise.
 
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Thistle

Well-known member
Rand Paul is an eye doctor, who got COVID, like so many deniers, because he didn’t have the horse sense to avoid it.

Why would anyone listen to him about the vaccine? He is unqualified and already proven himself to be an idiot when it comes to the virus.
I've address this argument above.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Actually one makes himself of no earthly good to God if he tries to play God in something that God reveals from his word that is in his power alone like the appointment and removal of Kings and kingdoms and which then removes precious time from that person to do those things that God has revealed in his word are his business as a human being to be doing on this earth.
That must strike you as an intelligent comment. I think you're alone in that assessment. God's providence is not at odds with human temporal responsibility. And the citizens in a republic has a certain responsibility for participation in the republic.
Therefore when one doesn't seek God from his word to determine the difference between what belongs to God alone and what he as a human being is suppose to be involved in on this earth, this is when he in his traditional worthless religion will became too heavenly minded that he is no earthly
This is a remarkably unwise commandeering of the notion of God'hs perpositive well over against the temporal responsibility of God's people on earth.
Furthermore unlike you, I have scripture to support what I am saying about this and here it is below.
Actually I'm pretty sure you don't .
Daniel 2:20 and said:

“Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever;
wisdom and power are his.
21 He changes times and seasons;

he deposes kings and raises up others.
He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.
22 He reveals deep and hidden things;
he knows what lies in darkness,
and light dwells with him.
23 I thank and praise you, God of my ancestors:
You have given me wisdom and power,
you have made known to me what we asked of you,
you have made known to us the dream of the king.”

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


Daniel 4:17 “‘The decision is announced by messengers (the angels), the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of people.’




Daniel 4:
34 At the end of that time, I, Nebuchadnezzar, raised my eyes toward heaven, and my sanity was restored. Then I praised the Most High; I honored and glorified him who lives forever.
His dominion is an eternal dominion;
his kingdom endures from generation to generation.
35 All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.

He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?”



Here is the question that you have to answer to, in whose power do the "times and seasons" belong for kings to be raised up or to be removed" and who does Daniel tell us is the one who makes this choice according to his own pleasure, you or God?


Notice that Daniel 4:35 says the people are regarded as nothing in respect of His choice and so he does what he pleases with this and that no one can hold back his hand or ask what have you done after he makes his choice.

Therefore, why do the apostate churches bother with the politics of this world and try to play God by attempting to change laws to force unbelievers to live righteous for God when laws can never change the hearts to make a permanent difference in this world anyhow?

Where do you have authority from the Bible to save the babies of the wicked also and after you save them from physical death in the womb and they grow up never believing the gospel message to suffer in the second death anyhow, what do you think you have really saved them from anyhow?

For Jesus himself told us that the majority will not believe the gospel message but only the minority and therefore that means the majority of any babies of the wicked that you save from physical death in the womb will end up lost to be destroyed in the lake of fire anyhow.

Furthermore, if God has appointed any of those babies of the wicked to be his elect according to his predestined plan, you can bet your bottom dollar that he himself and without your help will keep them from being aborted and Moses and Jesus are examples of this also.


So then, I have proven from the scriptures above that who reigns or is remove from reigning and the times and seasons for their reigns, is in God's power and not yours and therefore what you are doing involving yourself in it, is wasting time that should be better spend doing those things on this earth that do belong to you to be doing instead.
You've done nothing of the kind. The temporal responsibility for exercising the sovereignty that God has given man by
giving him custodianship of his creation will either be exercised or shirked as a matter of individual choice. The fact that God exercises his providential will through the independent actions of all of his creatures without the slightest impediment of his purposes is simply a matter to be understood or not. Admittedly, in a monarchy the individual citizen who is actually a subject in that case does not have a role to play in the sovereignty of that country but in a republic the opposite is the case.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
That must strike you as an intelligent comment. I think you're alone in that assessment. God's providence is not at odds with human temporal responsibility. And the citizens in a republic has a certain responsibility for participation in the republic.
Indeed I do look at it as intelligent because God said it in his word and there is no man who can even come close to his intelligences, albeit your apostate churches are full of those who think that are.


I see that you payed absolutely no attention to the scriptures that I gave you from Daniel 2 and 4 and from the words of Jesus in Acts 1:6-7 but I expected that from you and by the way, I am not interested in the opinions of men but only what is revealed in the Bible and those passages I gave you reveal otherwise.

Sorry but God has recorded for us in his word what our responsibility is and what isn't and it isn't given to human beings by God to evaluate who is the best pick for the leaders of the worldly governments and incidentally which America is also.

Furthermore, the churches will only guess at what God's will is concerning the appointment of leaders and God's will isn't always what we think it should be, but many times he raises up leaders to bring a scourge to his people because they are not obeying him and like what he did with Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon who took Israel captive because of their sin and Hitler in Germany also.

However, the churches today do not want to believe that they have any sin but think that the only reason why God's correction will comes to America is because of the wicked aborting their babies or for their gay rights.

However, it is always about those who call themselves God's people with God before anything else "for judgment must begin at the house of God" and the truth be told it is the selfish sin, legalism and greed among those who call themselves believers that has caused the increase of abortions and gay rights among the wicked.


The fact that you think I am alone on this is irrelevant also and really only your opinion anyhow, for you don't know how many other believers there are in the world who believe like I do but I can assure you of this, it is a minority remnant and that is supported by the word of God also.
This is a remarkably unwise commandeering of the notion of God'hs perpositive well over against the temporal responsibility of God's people on earth.

Once again, the difference between what man's responsibilities are and what belongs to God alone are clearly recorded in the Bible for us.

Like for example when Jesus and the inspired writers of the NT said, concerning the paying of taxes and obedience to the rulers that God has ordained over us, we are to render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God by God's.

By the way, would you really say that you are obeying the rulers that God has put over our country and who God commanded us to obey unless they they order us to do something against God's will?

Is it against God's will for you to wear a mask or to socially distance yourself for a time or to get vaccinated?

Don't bother quoting he book of Hebrews where he wrote "forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as is the manor of some" for that was a totally different context altogether, for they were in danger of turning their back on the true faith of Jesus to return to the OT of the law.


Furthermore, when this was written the churches were still walking in the truth of the word of God and of Christ, but as Paul and many of the other writers warned would come, the churches today are in apostasy from the truth and therefore what the writer of Hebrew said cannot apply the same today as it did back then.
Actually I'm pretty sure you don't .

You've done nothing of the kind. The temporal responsibility for exercising the sovereignty that God has given man by
giving him custodianship of his creation will either be exercised or shirked as a matter of individual choice. The fact that God exercises his providential will through the independent actions of all of his creatures without the slightest impediment of his purposes is simply a matter to be understood or not. Admittedly, in a monarchy the individual citizen who is actually a subject in that case does not have a role to play in the sovereignty of that country but in a republic the opposite is the case.
Well I am not pretty sure about anything but rather I am positive that I do and I gave them to you right from Daniel 2 and 4 and also from Jesus' words in acts 1:6-7.

Whose power did Jesus tell the disciples that the the times and seasons for raising of Kings and kingdoms and their removal belong to?

Who does Daniel tell us they belong to in chapters 2 and 4?


It couldn't have been said any clearer in any of those passages but you just want to follow your apostate traditions handed down to you from men who got them from other men and who got them from other men and who never got them from God's word.

Man doesn't have absolute sovereignty over the creation because to begin with, he still has sin and I am speaking of believers also, for although sin his been dealt with in regards to his heart he still has sin within him that can lead his heart astray at times, so I don't have a clue where you are getting that idea from.

Dude, America is not the government of God anymore than any other secular nation and never was either.

In fact the Declaration of Independence is really quite un Biblical completely, for men are sinner and therefore they have no "certain unalienable rights at all" but instead they are existing only under God's mercy and grace and what he determines for them instead and where does it say in the Bible that all mean are equal as sinners?

If men never sinned, it would be different but they have and therefore the Declaration of Independence is not Biblical but it is a good thing for men and women to try to abide by if they see it in light of what the Bible really says also.

However the fact is that many of the forgers and writers of this document were total hypocrites and didn't even abide by what the created in it themselves.

For they made slaves of other men whom they claimed were created equal unto them and who they claimed were given by God certain unalienable rights and as though they were superior to them and the hypocrisy of this should make us sick at our hearts, but this is the way it was and it is a fact that cannot be denied and can be proven from history also.
 
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Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
He survived it, like 99.8% of all people do.
So does that mean that the others whose lives were lost from it and which was over 600,000, don't count?

If so, then how can you call yourselves pro life?

Let me explain something to you that you may not understand, for if a baby dies in the womb, that baby will never suffer in the second death because it never breathed the breath of life on its own yet to become a living soul separate from his mother who supplied her breath to the baby through the ambilocal cord when it was still in the womb.

However, anyone who was born into this world already and who has breathed the breath of life on their own and who is not saved, and dies of Covid 19, will suffer far greater than that baby who dies in the womb and within the second death.





.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
So does that mean that the others whose lives were lost from it and which was over 600,000, don't count?

If so, then how can you call yourselves pro life?

Let me explain something to you that you may not understand, for if a baby dies in the womb, that baby will never suffer in the second death because it never breathed the breath of life on its own yet to become a living soul separate from his mother who supplied her breath to the baby through the ambilocal cord when it was still in the womb.

However, anyone who was born into this world already and who has breathed the breath of life on their own and who is not saved, and dies of Covid 19, will suffer far greater than that baby who dies in the womb and within the second death.





.
I think the survival rate globally is between 98 and 99%, depending upon what source one uses.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Indeed I do look at it as intelligent because God said it in his word and there is no man who can even come close to his intelligences, albeit your apostate churches are full of those who think that are.
God is not mediating this discussion between you and me. What God has said is not in dispute what do you have inferred from it very much is.
I see that you payed absolutely no attention to the scriptures that I gave you from Daniel 2 and 4 and from the words of Jesus in Acts 1:6-7
That is not true.
but I expected that from you and by the way,
Lucky for you that you interpret all the facts to reinforce your presuppositions.
I am not interested in the opinions of men
Do you know that's a funny thing, because I'm not particularly impressed with your interpretations of scripture either. You have a pretty impressive way of making God's word bend to your argument. The problem is the ruler should not be the thing that stretches and bends.
but only what is revealed in the Bible and those passages I gave you reveal otherwise.
If you're stuck to what was revealed in the Bible would have no issues.
Sorry but God has recorded for us in his word what our responsibility is and what isn't and it isn't given to human beings by God to evaluate who is the best pick for the leaders of the worldly governments and incidentally which America is also.
What God says about his divine providence respecting the leadership of countries does not affect the responsibilities of men who are working within the providence of God.
Furthermore, the churches will only guess at what God's will is concerning the appointment of leaders and God's will isn't always what we think it should be, but many times he raises up leaders to bring a scourge to his people because they are not obeying him and like what he did with Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon who took Israel captive because of their sin and Hitler in Germany also.
That's certainly true it's also entirely beside the point. In a democratic republic it is the responsibility of the citizens to exercise their franchise and vote. So in spite of the fact that we do not know the providential will of God, or what his master plan is, we still have to form a judgment in the conscience that God has given us, and do the best we can to be within the spirit of his will.
However, the churches today do not want to believe that they have any sin but think that the only reason why God's correction will comes to America is because of the wicked aborting their babies or for their gay rights.
I think you're anthropomorphizing to an unwarranted degree what local churches "want to believe." I live in a blue state and we have valued members of our local church where members are both politically to the left and right. Our solution is to not dwell on subjects of the left and right view very differently.
However, it is always about those who call themselves God's people with God before anything else "for judgment must begin at the house of God" and the truth be told it is the selfish sin, legalism and greed among those who call themselves believers that has caused the increase of abortions and gay rights among the wicked.
Do I want to hear how you might possibly connect those dots?
The fact that you think I am alone on this is irrelevant
Fair enough…
also and really only your opinion anyhow, for you don't know how many other believers there are in the world who believe like I do but I can assure you of this, it is a minority remnant and that is supported by the word of God also.
This post does a poor job of casting you as a Elijhaa figure standing against the prophets of Baal.
Once again, the difference between what man's responsibilities are and what belongs to God alone are clearly recorded in the Bible for us.
Indeed…

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." - Genesis 1:28 KJV


God gave man temporal sovereignty subject only to his own.
Like for example when Jesus and the inspired writers of the NT said, concerning the paying of taxes and obedience to the rulers that God has ordained over us, we are to render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar and to God what belongs to God by God's.
And what period of Roman history did Jesus say this? Was it the Republican period? It was not, it was in the imperial period. Regardless the only small point that is relevant is that the citizens of a republican form of government has an obligation to participate at least to the extent that their vote is concerned.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
By the way, would you really say that you are obeying the rulers that God has put over our country and who God commanded us to obey unless they they order us to do something against God's will?
Like fund abortions through planned parenthood?
Is it against God's will for you to wear a mask or to socially distance yourself for a time or to get vaccinated?
As it turns out the governor in our state determined that I am an essential worker and when necessary I wore a mask I have a private office so I can simply close my door and take my mask off, but according to the rules of the state in which I live, I was able to go to work every day in 2020.
Don't bother quoting he book of Hebrews where he wrote "forsake not the assembling of yourselves together as is the manor of some" for that was a totally different context altogether, for they were in danger of turning their back on the true faith of Jesus to return to the OT of the law.
There are enough older people in our congregation that the rules limiting the number of people who can meet we're never in danger of being exceeded. Most elderly people were quite cautious throughout the worst of 2020.
Furthermore, when this was written the churches were still walking in the truth of the word of God and of Christ, but as Paul and many of the other writers warned would come, the churches today are in apostasy from the truth and therefore what the writer of Hebrew said cannot apply the same today as it did back then.
It looks like you've got both sides of this argument going pretty well, it makes my job easy.
Well I am not pretty sure about anything
Slaying my "ungodly" colloquialism. Outstanding!
but rather I am positive that I do and I gave them to you right from Daniel 2 and 4 and also from Jesus' words in acts 1:6-7.
I don't have a problem with your citation of Acts 1:6 and seven. The inference you draw from it, and the burden of argument that you foist upon it, that's another question.
Whose power did Jesus tell the disciples that the the times and seasons for raising of Kings and kingdoms and their removal belong to?

Who does Daniel tell us they belong to in chapters 2 and 4?


It couldn't have been said any clearer in any of those passages but you just want to follow your apostate traditions handed down to you from men who got them from other men and who got them from other men and who never got them from God's word.
As I read you using scripture as you are here I cannot help but be reminded when the soldiers and tax collectors came to be baptized by John. They were sincerely asking what they needed to do and because they were asking out of a pure heart John gave them a straight answer. And because of the repentant heart they were baptized. When the Pharisees who are so supremely confident of their standing before God came to be baptized John called him brood of snakes. The one thing John did not tell them, he didn't tell the soldiers to stop being soldiers, and he didn't tell the tax collectors to stop being tax collectors, so it follows as night falls day that he would not tell citizens of a republic to stop being citizens of a republic.
Man doesn't have absolute sovereignty over the creation
Man has limited sovereignty over creation because God gave it to him.
because to begin with, he still has sin and I am speaking of believers also, for although sin his been dealt with in regards to his heart he still has sin within him that can lead his heart astray at times, so I don't have a clue where you are getting that idea from.
Genesis 1:28.
How do you know my name is "dude?" This may help explain some of your interpretations.
America is not the government of God anymore than any other secular nation and never was either.
You went to considerable lengths above to make a point of how Christians are supposed to keep their obligations to their government, of whatever form. Our obligation in a democratic republic is to vote. You made the case for that yourself.
In fact the Declaration of Independence is really quite un Biblical completely,
Here it is, the god hates America just as much as you do argument. You should've left this argument in the cellophane.
for men are sinner and therefore they have no "certain unalienable rights at all" but instead they are existing only under God's mercy and grace and what he determines for them instead and where does it say in the Bible that all mean are equal as sinners?
You really don't have a clue what the Declaration of Independence says and means. The point of that preamble is not directed at God, is directed at King George the third. We are creatures created by God so of course God can judge us. The Declaration of Independence is not saying anything about that. That statement about un-alienable rights has to do with the government overstepping the sovereignty that God has loaned to them.
If men never sinned, it would be different but they have and therefore the Declaration of Independence is not Biblical but it is a good thing for men and women to try to abide by if they see it in light of what the Bible really says also.
Your point is moot because your ability to interpret the declaration of independence is even worse than your ability to interpret the Bible.
However the fact is that many of the forgers and writers of this document were total hypocrites and didn't even abide by what the created in it themselves.
Hypocrisy was not invented in 1776. If you want to condemn the Lords church it's pretty easy pickings because God's standard is perfection and you won't find a perfect person in God's church.
For they made slaves of other men whom they claimed were created equal unto them and who they claimed were given by God certain unalienable rights and as though they were superior to them and the hypocrisy of this should make us sick at our hearts, but this is the way it was and it is a fact that cannot be denied and can be proven from history also.
All of these cases are very special facts specific and it's impossible to discuss without getting into a discussion of many thousands of words. But I would simply point out that before the constitution was signed in 1789 the northwest charter was issued with essentially all the same signatories. That the Northwest Charter would place the south in the minority there by ending slavery on auto pilot. And if you look a few years later the issues that did bring about the Civil War were directly related to language in the northwest charter.
 
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