Oh, we're supposed to be responding to the point that the other guy was making? Perhaps you can help me understand something then. Why doesn't that work in reverse where you're supposed to understand my point?
I do understand your points and I understand them to be the un Biblical traditions and false doctrines created by men and not given to us by the Holy Spirit.
"True" ultimately is the only kind of church God a has.
Yep, but the majority of what would appear to be his church (called out ones) is now worshipping the Devil and the spirit of antichrist while being deceived into believing that they are truly worshipping God and his true appointed King Jesus Christ.
The Greek word translated as "church" is "ecclesia" and which translated means "called out" and you should remember these words of Jesus, "for many are called but few are chosen".
Therefore many in your churches were truly called out, but they weren't chosen because they stopped short of the full truth of God as revealed from the scriptures by the Spirit and for the counterfeit replacement of their own carnal intellects, human reasoning and wisdom (the flesh).
If God's children are to be "in the world but not of the world" they still have to keep their obligations to the world. Do we agree about that? If the answer is yes, then citizens of a democratic republic have an obligation to participate even if they're Christians.
Let's see the scripture verses that say this? Otherwise you are just making things up like usual.
In spite of the salt of the earth, the lamp on the lamp stand, or the city on the hill, people are still getting murdered and the state is still convicting them of murder.
How is that relevant to what I am arguing here?
For we have already covered the fact that God has put the rulers in charge of that and not his church and who are suppose to be bringing the conviction for the sins of the unbelievers through the righteousness that they have in their own lives and which the unbelievers are suppose to be seeing and being convicted by instead of the way you are attempt to do it by law. .
As near as I can tell, the church has never been so skillful at carrying out its obligation to the great commission that it's put an absolute end to murder in any civilization that I can think of. And given that Jesus was crucified with two criminals on either side, even he didn't put an end to evil doing in his earthly ministry.
No one said that it would put a complete end to it but it should by now have done a lot more at it than what it has.
Furthermore, Jesus was one person of complete obedience out of the majority of Israel that were a total mess in regards to living righteous lives and they would have loved your churches today who attempt to legislated the moral laws of God being that is what they believed in also and which is what makes them your bedfellows also.
Because God is love. It would have been impossible for God to create a universe in which his moral agents would choose to sin without also scheduling the cross so that as many as would receive his word could enter the household of faith. Therefore we can say that because God is love he could not create this universe with free moral agents without first scheduling the cross.
That is true but also irrelevant to my argument here.
I might've said that a bit differently, but you seem to be talking about Romans eight.
Yep, Romans 8:29 but my point is that it was God's plan from the very beginning (predestined) that Jesus would be the first born in whom his image of righteousness would be made manifest to this world and that he would also be the model from which all of his saints would also be conformed to.
I think everyone is watching with great interest as the Supreme Court is about to consider a case that will bring Roe v. Wade into the center of our view. Will they revert to stare decisis or will they consider the constitutional question of rights? So returning to your analogy the cat happens to be in the supreme courts hands at the moment and whether it goes back in the bag or not is very much an open question.
Even if they over turn roe vs wade, it will not last, because your churches by their disobedience have already let the cat out of the bag because they did not raise the righteous standard of God up unto the unbelieving by how they behave in their own lives and especially concerning the love commandments of Jesus.
As far as I know, and this is not unique to gays, everybody in the United States has all the same rights.
As far as overturning laws it looks like we're on the backside of that mountain.
Which is why I don't presume to speak for the church.
I'll leave condemnations of the Lords church up to you I'm not interested in treding on that territory.
Your own Bible tells you that you as a member of the church, should be involved in judging what is going on in your churches and which proves to me that you don't know the Bible like you think you do.
If these posts you've been writing are any indication, you know far less than your self aggrandizing attributions would suggest.
Unlike you, I am doing exactly what the Bible tells us to do, for your churches are a mess and need to repent and come back to the truth from their apostasy.
Exhibit one…
I'm not speaking for the Lords church. Why you insist on making this false attribution to me, the good Lord only knows, but I'll thank you so stop.
It would also be appreciated if you would stop speaking for God. Clearly you're not qualified.
First off, I am not really speaking of the Lord's church but rather the one who has given itself over the to spirit of antichrist instead.
Anti= in place of and not the genuine.
And of course you being deceived like you obviously are, believe that you are qualified to speak for God about it huh?
Above you make false attribution to me here you make attributions of motive to me. Do you have a shred of intellectual intelligence integrity? If the answer is yes I do encourage you to get it out of the broom closet and start using it.
I don't endorse myself concerning my own intelligence, for we believe the truth are not suppose to be led by our own intelligence anyhow but rather by the mind of Christ which is the Holy Spirit of God and as Paul in 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3 very clearly reveals for us also. ,
Which begs the question of why you're so obsessed with responding to me. If one is to believe this comment is a fair representation of your state of mind then there's no possible answer to that question.
And which reveals even further how ignorant you are of the two fold purpose for teaching and preaching the true, for on one hand the preaching is to present the scriptures so that God can use them to bring people to repentance and faith in him.
However, on the other hand we preach and teach to present the truth unto all men so that on the day of judgment all excuses are removed from them for not believing and all mouths of those who didn't and wouldn't believe are stopped and become guilty before God.
And it is the latter of those two reasons why I continue to respond to you, for I highly doubt from your obstinate way, that you will ever respond to the truth and truly repent of your false doctrines, for from what I see, you are a hard liner in your addiction to your false doctrines.
Perhaps you missed the point. This is a secular forum, and whether contributors happen to be Christians or not, they're not speaking for the church. If you want to have a discussion which deals with the inside baseball within the church walls, this is not your fourm. Go to one of the doctrine forms, church governance forms, or church discipline forms.
I didn't miss your point but only disagreed with you about it.
For that passage "judgment must begin at the house of God" was written to reveal the fact that until God's people pass through God's judgment and are corrected, God will not judge those in the world because intends for them first to see the correct example of his righteousness within the church before he judges them for not believing it after they see it.