Rapture yes or no

American Gothic

Well-known member
If anyone is not as the Father of it as Jesus was like the Father of it then one is not of Christ at all.
any Jew who believes and trusts Jesus as Messiah is in Jesus
the Gospel is and remains to the Jew first
Gentiles in Messiah are brought near to the commonwealth of Israel and benefit from Her spiritual promises and blessings
God the son? There is no God the son. We have sons of God but not one of His sons are a god.
the "angels"/sons of God are called elohim/gods (they are Supernatural from our perspective)
they are not worthy of worship as they are created beings and not God
God the Son/Son of God is worthy of worship, being God

Mankind have to be reborn to be a part of God's family, born not of the flesh only, but of the will of God
A Christian is Gods anointed, that is what Christ means, Christ in you is Gods anointing in you. same anointing from God Jesus basked in.
so you think there are many "Messiahs"? I think that comes from Gnosticism

did Jesus have the Spirit indwelt within Him? did He need to?
God the Spirit works to facilitate the work of God the Son, who does the will of His Father
It is impossible to be of Christ and be of sin. If one says he is of Christ yet a sinner then that makes the one they say they are of a sinner doesnt it?
if you say you do not sin you are a liar - all of Mankind are Sin by nature (Jesus excepted)
it would also be calling God a liar, which is a slander of His character and a type of Blashphemy
a Godly person believes what God says, an unGodly person does not

in Jesus there is no longer condemnation, as sins are no longer being held against
 
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Gary Mac

Well-known member
So you're perfect? Wow.
Everyone who is of Christ is. You cant be of Christ and not be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

If you are not perfected in Christ then you worship a different god from the One who is perfect and is supposed to be in you just as He was in Jesus.

See Jesus prayer to this God that He be in you and you in Him as one as Jesus was one in Him in John 17.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
any Jew who believes and trusts Jesus as Messiah is in Jesus
the Gospel is and remains to the Jew first
Gentiles in Messiah are brought near to the commonwealth of Israel and benefit from Her spiritual promises and blessings
Jewish beliefs do not include the way of Christ.

Jesus taught Jewish laws in the temples even at a young age up until he was about 30 years old when God came to him by His Spirit and reveals Himself in Jesus. He does the very same in us all who will let Him.

Ironic is, the very Jews Jesus once taught in the temples are the very ones who had him crucified for blaspheme after he met God to know who He really is and His heaven. See Matt 3:16. This was the beginning of his trials and tribulations as a blasphemer.
the "angels"/sons of God are called elohim/gods (they are Supernatural from our perspective)
they are not worthy of worship as they are created beings and not God
God the Son/Son of God is worthy of worship, being God
And I am His son.
Mankind have to be reborn to be a part of God's family, born not of the flesh only, but of the will of God
Yes by receiving in us the very thing that God is.
so you think there are many "Messiahs"? I think that comes from Gnosticism
Many Messiahs? There is only one God who saves us from sin, for He takes away the sins of this world and when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him just as Jesus and others became like Him who saw. See 1 John 3.
did Jesus have the Spirit indwelt within Him? did He need to?
Absolutely or he never would have know God at all. For God came to him just as He does us all who receive Him and spend up who He is and His heaven to Jesus. Matt 3:16. Are you suggesting that God didn't come to Jesus by His Spirit and open all of His heaven to Jesus?
God the Spirit works to facilitate the work of God the Son, who does the will of His Father
Yes and I am His son, you are supposed to be as well.
if you say you do not sin you are a liar - all of Mankind are Sin by nature (Jesus excepted)
it would also be calling God a liar, which is a slander of His character and a type of Blashphemy
a Godly person believes what God says, an unGodly person does not

in Jesus there is no longer condemnation, as sins are no longer being held against
If you say you are of Christ yet the sinner then you lie for in Christ there is no sin, it is outside of Christ that you are the sinner.
If you say you follow the way of Christ yet the sinner then that makes the one you say you follow the sinner doesnt it?

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Bingo!

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

What ! Cleans us from all sin? Humm!

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

In this flesh man is a sinner. In the flesh Jesus was a sinner, and crucified for being that sinner, blasphemer, wine bibber, glutton, sabbath breaker was he not?

I dont thon you understand what you are reading or confessing rejecting the very One who does take away the sins of this world and you are walking int darkness instead of His light for holiness.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Most confess they are sinner but never confess they are the righteousness of God in Christ which is impossible to be in sin isn't it?
They confess their sins but never are thorough in repentance from sin.


10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
All has sinned and fell short, sinned has an ED at the end, past participle.

Wh who has received from God the very same from Him as Jesus and some of these others did cannot sin, for we are born of God, God manifest in us. See 1 John 3:9 We cannot sin at all.

If you are the sinner see V8,. it tells clearly who you are of doesnt it? But you won't believe it will you?
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
In this flesh man is a sinner. In the flesh Jesus was a sinner, and crucified for being that sinner, blasphemer, wine bibber, glutton, sabbath breaker was he not?
No, he was not
God does not, cannot sin
if you don't believe Jesus is God you are a heretic

all Christians are still sinners until the day they die or are raptured
and they are then confirmed in Holiness, similar to the "angels"/Heavenly sons of God who didn't rebel
and were confirmed in Holiness

the very ones who had him crucified
if you think any other people/Nation would have done better you are a fool
they were deliberately created by God for His purposes and for His glory
and remain special to Him and in His plans
He is faithful to them, even when they are not

Jewish beliefs do not include the way of Christ.
the first Christians were Jews
the last Christians will be Jews
God always preserves a remnant of Israel, graciously thru Faith
in the Kingdom age, all Jews will be Believers

booyah
 
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YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Many professing Christians believe and teach that we will be spared the tribulation before Jesus comes back. They call it a rapture.

Does the Bible teach a rapture?

No.

1 Thess. 4:17 says they that are alive and remain shall be taken up.

Remain from what?

Remain alive from when the Lord comes to destroy all the wicked and bring us home. Please follow along.

2 Thess. 1 :7-9 Tell us When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels. In flaming fire taking vengeance on them whom know not God. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord in the day the Lord is glorified in His saints. They as the wicked one shall be destroyed by the brightness of His coming. But prior to this day that the Lord shall be glorified in His saints, taken up. The day we shall be caught up together with them and be with the Lord forevermore. There shall be days like there never has been before. But immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light. The very powers of heaven shall shake and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn. Then as lighting cometh from the East and flashes unto the west, so shall be the coming of the Son of man be. And in that day He shall send His angels to gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven unto the other. And so shall we be with the Lord forevermore amen.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2 Thessalonians 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
There is a Rapture in the Bible, but it is the actual Second Coming event!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
Jewish beliefs do not include the way of Christ.

Jesus taught Jewish laws in the temples even at a young age up until he was about 30 years old when God came to him by His Spirit and reveals Himself in Jesus. He does the very same in us all who will let Him.

Ironic is, the very Jews Jesus once taught in the temples are the very ones who had him crucified for blaspheme after he met God to know who He really is and His heaven. See Matt 3:16. This was the beginning of his trials and tribulations as a blasphemer.

And I am His son.

Yes by receiving in us the very thing that God is.

Many Messiahs? There is only one God who saves us from sin, for He takes away the sins of this world and when you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him just as Jesus and others became like Him who saw. See 1 John 3.

Absolutely or he never would have know God at all. For God came to him just as He does us all who receive Him and spend up who He is and His heaven to Jesus. Matt 3:16. Are you suggesting that God didn't come to Jesus by His Spirit and open all of His heaven to Jesus?

Yes and I am His son, you are supposed to be as well.

If you say you are of Christ yet the sinner then you lie for in Christ there is no sin, it is outside of Christ that you are the sinner.
If you say you follow the way of Christ yet the sinner then that makes the one you say you follow the sinner doesnt it?

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Bingo!

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

What ! Cleans us from all sin? Humm!

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

In this flesh man is a sinner. In the flesh Jesus was a sinner, and crucified for being that sinner, blasphemer, wine bibber, glutton, sabbath breaker was he not?

I dont thon you understand what you are reading or confessing rejecting the very One who does take away the sins of this world and you are walking int darkness instead of His light for holiness.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Most confess they are sinner but never confess they are the righteousness of God in Christ which is impossible to be in sin isn't it?
They confess their sins but never are thorough in repentance from sin.


10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
All has sinned and fell short, sinned has an ED at the end, past participle.

Wh who has received from God the very same from Him as Jesus and some of these others did cannot sin, for we are born of God, God manifest in us. See 1 John 3:9 We cannot sin at all.

If you are the sinner see V8,. it tells clearly who you are of doesnt it? But you won't believe it will you?
Jesus was and is God Incarnate!
 

YeshuaFan

Well-known member
No, he was not
God does not, cannot sin
if you don't believe Jesus is God you are a heretic

all Christians are still sinners until the day they die or are raptured
and they are then confirmed in Holiness, similar to the "angels"/Heavenly sons of God who didn't rebel
and were confirmed in Holiness


if you think any other people/Nation would have done better you are a fool
they were deliberately created by God for His purposes and for His glory
and remain special to Him and in His plans


the first Christians were Jews
the last Christians will be Jews
God always preserves a remnant of Israel, graciously thru Faith
in the Kingdom age, all Jews will be Believers

booyah
Supreme irony was that in the first century Church, jews doubted gentiles were to get saved by their Messiah, but now its jews doubting their own messiah!
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Supreme irony was that in the first century Church, jews doubted gentiles were to get saved by their Messiah, but now its jews doubting their own messiah!
some had a hard time understanding that Gentiles could be saved apart from circumcision and the Mosaic law
Jews were also not saved by circumcision and the Mosaic law or Jewish birth
anyone at any time is only saved by grace, thru faith in Messiah

for a long time very few Gentiles were saved
for a while now very few Jews are being saved, but that will change
God does things how He chooses
and is gracious on whom He chooses, when and how He chooses
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
No, he was not
Oh so he didn't go on trial for blaspheme? Then all of that what was written about it is a lie?
God does not, cannot sin
Amen and He ion me and I inHim are one. See Jesus prayer to our God for me to be in John 17. His prayer to our God worked.
if you don't believe Jesus is God you are a heretic
Yes I am heretic the very same way Jesus was heretic to the same for I have the very same salvation from God Jesus had from God in Matt 3:16 where He came and spend up all of who He is in us.

The same religious laws who falsely accused Jesus of being God are the same laws you falsely accuse Jesus of being God. He was innocent of all of mans religious charges. So am I for I have the very same from God Jesus had.

You haven't received form God that what Jesus received from Him have you?
all Christians are still sinners until the day they die or are raptured
and they are then confirmed in Holiness, similar to the "angels"/Heavenly sons of God who didn't rebel
and were confirmed in Holiness
A Christin is Gods anointed ones. We cannot sin, impossible to be in sin because we are born of God His sons, See 1 John 3:9.
if you think any other people/Nation would have done better you are a fool
they were deliberately created by God for His purposes and for His glory
and remain special to Him and in His plans
He is faithful to them, even when they are not
Ye He created me in His exact same image, and have His same mind, and walk in it as He walks in it no different at all.

If you think your way is better then His then you have joined the majority of religious minds who makes their gods what they would have their gods be.
the first Christians were Jews
the last Christians will be Jews
God always preserves a remnant of Israel, graciously thru Faith
in the Kingdom age, all Jews will be Believers

booyah
The first Christian was Adam, he was the first to become like God to know this difference. Gem 3:22. And the last will be exactly like Him as well.

The Jews still do not follow the way of Christ. And they will be Christian only if they drop the Jewish laws and receive from God that what Jesus received form Him. Jesus stepped out from those houses for law and these had him crucified for it.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
The Jews still do not follow the way of Christ. And they will be Christian only if they drop the Jewish laws and receive from God that what Jesus received form Him. Jesus stepped out from those houses for law and these had him crucified for it.
the New covenant is made with the Jewish people Jeremiah 31
the Law of Messiah/Christ - a law of liberty and freedom - is a law given by a Jew

"There is only one lawgiver and judge, the One who is able to save and destroy." James 4
the Creator is the Owner, lawful Ruler and Judge (ie. God)

"Kiss his Son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him." Psalm 2

"Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Whose hands have gathered up the wind? Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the Earth? What is His name, and what is the name of his Son? Surely you know!" Proverbs 30

bow down or get wrecked
 
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Nedsk

Well-known member
Everyone who is of Christ is. You cant be of Christ and not be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

If you are not perfected in Christ then you worship a different god from the One who is perfect and is supposed to be in you just as He was in Jesus.

See Jesus prayer to this God that He be in you and you in Him as one as Jesus was one in Him in John 17.
Ok
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
the New covenant is made with the Jewish people Jeremiah 31
the Law of Messiah/Christ - a law of liberty and freedom - is a law given by a Jew.
No it wasn't given by a Jew at all. It is given by Gods Spirit.

The laws of the Jewish people is not thew same laws for Spirit.

The laws Jesus brought were,
Be one in the Father with He in you and you in Him as one as God was in Jesus and he in God as one John 17.
The kingdom of God doesnt come with observation it is within you. Luke 17:20-21.
Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
Walk as He walks in His same light, same mind, same Spirit. Same signs follow.
Ye must be born of God who is a Spirit, born again to have His same mind, thoughts.

And we can go on and one with the laws that came from Gods Spirit that Jesus announced. They are not the same laws as the Jews.
"There is only one lawgiver and judge, the One who is able to save and destroy." James 4
the Creator is the Owner, lawful Ruler and Judge (ie. God)
That is correct.
"Kiss his Son, or he will be angry and your way will lead to your destruction, for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him." Psalm 2
Yes' either you are like Him or you are not.
"Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Whose hands have gathered up the wind? Who has wrapped up the waters in a cloak? Who has established all the ends of the Earth? What is His name, and what is the name of his Son? Surely you know!" Proverbs 30
Yes His name is Love, for God is Love, He is a Spirit and that Spirit is Love and man is the temple for Him. Jesus received His Spirit of Love in Matt 3:16.
bow down or get wrecked
Bow down to mans laws that regulate their gods by their laws, or bow down to Gods Spirit and receive the very same from Him that Jesus received from Him.

Big difference in knowledge. One can know all the law in Hebrew Greek and Latin, but it is another matter to actually be like Him and live them as Jesus lived them and have Gods same mind, which is His Spirit, which simply is Love. One will never know God without having His same mind yourself. All the law cant give you that, and the law is not designed to give you that. The law is only a tutorial, KJV says schoolmaster to lead you to Gods anointing, Christ in you. The law cannot give you Gods Spirit, it can show you how to receive that what Jesus and these others received form God however.

Obedience is key in receiving anything from God, and Even Jesus had to learn that lesson.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Obedience is key in receiving anything from God, and Even Jesus had to learn that lesson.
We can never be obedient enough to merit anything from God
the history of Adam, Mankind and the nation of Israel specifically
recorded in Scripture for all to read illustrate that
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions." Psalm 45

an aspect of God, Who is God
has a God

there is only one God, and God is One
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
God can not be seen, and yet can be seen
Who do the elohim/Heavenly sons of God see when they see God?
who do Men see when they see God?

and in Whose image where they and we created?
"let us make Man in our image, in our likeness"

God the Son, that's Who was with God, and was God
 
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