RCC Clergy Garments

preacher4truth

Well-known member
I have seen the movie. Oh well some people would have had a problem with going to church with Mary Slessor she was a missionary to Africa, she often got confused by dates and thought Monday was Sunday and the natives came without clothes. But one time two warring fractions want to fight she stood in the middle closed her eyes and just prayed when she opened her eyes the men had left and their weapons were piled up either side of her. Astonishing women.
Yes, but she had a cast iron skillet in one hand and a rolling pin in the other.
 

ziapueblo

Active member
Does anyone recall the Bible ever mentioning that the apostles decided that they wanted to wear distinctive garments which would signify a degree of respect given only to those persons of higher spiritual rank - distinguished clothing worn to characterize them from the converts and all other followers of Jesus that were not with Him before His crucifixion, death and Ascension.
Does anyone recall the Bible ever mentioning what kind of music to play in Church?
 

balshan

Well-known member
Does anyone recall the Bible ever mentioning what kind of music to play in Church?
I cannot recall, but now will look. I mean I must read music isn't my thing. I know the psalms were to be sung, David was praised by God for his way of praising God.

2 Sam 6:14

And David danced before the Lord with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod.

Ps 149:3

Let them praise his name with dancing, making melody to him with tambourine and lyre!

Ps150:1+

Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! ...

1 Cor 14:26

What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up

1 Cor 14:7+

If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?

Matt 26:30
And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

Well a quick study does seem that music and hymns were part of the worship service.
 

ziapueblo

Active member
I cannot recall, but now will look. I mean I must read music isn't my thing. I know the psalms were to be sung, David was praised by God for his way of praising God.

2 Sam 6:14

And David danced before the Lord with all his might. And David was wearing a linen ephod.

Ps 149:3

Let them praise his name with dancing, making melody to him with tambourine and lyre!

Ps150:1+

Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary; praise him in his mighty heavens! Praise him for his mighty deeds; praise him according to his excellent greatness! Praise him with trumpet sound; praise him with lute and harp! Praise him with tambourine and dance; praise him with strings and pipe! Praise him with sounding cymbals; praise him with loud clashing cymbals! ...

1 Cor 14:26

What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up

1 Cor 14:7+

If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?

Matt 26:30
And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

Well a quick study does seem that music and hymns were part of the worship service.
I get it, and I can understand the OP, but at the same time, what about worship? What does the NT say about how Christians should worship? What does the NT say about the structure of worship? I does not specifically say.

Of course, we all will point to what we believe the NT says about worship, vestments, a priest hood (or not).
 

balshan

Well-known member
I get it, and I can understand the OP, but at the same time, what about worship? What does the NT say about how Christians should worship? What does the NT say about the structure of worship? I does not specifically say.

Of course, we all will point to what we believe the NT says about worship, vestments, a priest hood (or not).
To be quite honest the heart is far more important that format and visuals. Which the op is about. Clothes/rituals outfits does not make a person right with God, look at the high number of RC priests in this country (Royal Commission backs that statement) who celebrated mass and then would harm children.

amos 5

21 I hate, I despise your religious festivals;
your assemblies are a stench to me.
22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,...
23 Away with the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.

God can hate and he hates pretence.

1 Sam 16:7

But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”
 

balshan

Well-known member
I get it, and I can understand the OP, but at the same time, what about worship? What does the NT say about how Christians should worship? What does the NT say about the structure of worship? I does not specifically say.

Of course, we all will point to what we believe the NT says about worship, vestments, a priest hood (or not).
I have read a story about Ghandi he went to a church in England because he had read about Jesus and then they looked at him and told him to sit in the back. He never went back.

I read Jackie Pullinger and how she had to start up her own service because the people being saved and were coming out of the drug scene were not wanted at her church.

Churches worry too much about outward things which are not important, rather than inward. God cares about inward.
 

ziapueblo

Active member
To be quite honest the heart is far more important that format and visuals.
The Orthodox definitely agree with this statement. We do, however, see that all 5 senses are needed during worship so there are things in Orthodox worship that accommodate for that (incense, bells, chanting, making the sign of the cross, prostrations, etc).

look at the high number of RC priests in this country (Royal Commission backs that statement) who celebrated mass and then would harm children.
Yes, this is a horrible atrocity that is an unfortunate part of human nature and the RCC should have done something about this rather than sweep it under the rug. Unfortunately, this is not just a RC issue as we recently saw with the Southern Baptist Convention. Also, and this may not have anything to do with children specifically (but I think it does), look whats happening in the United Methodist Church. My mother-in-laws husbands son-in-law (and dear friend of mine) is a Methodist pastor and his church voted to remove themselves for the United Methodist Church because of all this issues going on with the denomination.


I have read a story about Ghandi he went to a church in England because he had read about Jesus and then they looked at him and told him to sit in the back. He never went back.

I read Jackie Pullinger and how she had to start up her own service because the people being saved and were coming out of the drug scene were not wanted at her church.

Churches worry too much about outward things which are not important, rather than inward. God cares about inward.
This is all unfortunate. My wife just started a prison ministry at our Church for this very reason. There is a larger Orthodox prison ministry that is giving us resources. It is so important that when a non-churched or non-believer come through the doors of our local Churches that we always include them and make them feel at home. All are welcome! I of course don't mean that in come as you are and stay as you are but come as you are, and when you meet Christ, you will want to change (which I have to remind myself daily!).

Blessings to you and love the exchange we are having!
 

balshan

Well-known member
The Orthodox definitely agree with this statement. We do, however, see that all 5 senses are needed during worship so there are things in Orthodox worship that accommodate for that (incense, bells, chanting, making the sign of the cross, prostrations, etc).


Yes, this is a horrible atrocity that is an unfortunate part of human nature and the RCC should have done something about this rather than sweep it under the rug. Unfortunately, this is not just a RC issue as we recently saw with the Southern Baptist Convention. Also, and this may not have anything to do with children specifically (but I think it does), look whats happening in the United Methodist Church. My mother-in-laws husbands son-in-law (and dear friend of mine) is a Methodist pastor and his church voted to remove themselves for the United Methodist Church because of all this issues going on with the denomination.



This is all unfortunate. My wife just started a prison ministry at our Church for this very reason. There is a larger Orthodox prison ministry that is giving us resources. It is so important that when a non-churched or non-believer come through the doors of our local Churches that we always include them and make them feel at home. All are welcome! I of course don't mean that in come as you are and stay as you are but come as you are, and when you meet Christ, you will want to change (which I have to remind myself daily!).

Blessings to you and love the exchange we are having!
I never said anything about senses and senses can mislead. My sister was married in the Greek orthodox church.

I never said it wasn't done else where and when RCs say look over there it just proves they are not the real church. The real church is not the same as over there. In this country the RCC was the worse offender, the percentages given by the Royal Commission were astonishing as to how much worse they were than over there. Over there does not justify their leaders. Unfortunately one of the Orthodox age cared homes did not come out of covid lock downs looking good at all. I think if we are going to preach Jesus, then we can not muddy His name and harming children is muddying His name. We as His representatives must be mindful of who we represent. We must expose evil and not hide it.

I would say it is more than unfortunate. Your wife is doing a great job. I will admit it is not a ministry I could do and yet I feel it is extremely important one. Prisoners are among the most needy. No one said it meant stay as you are. But outward change sometimes takes a little longer than inward change. The inward change is the most important one. They should never be turned away before God has the chance to work.

I often pray to love God more and to love others as He does. I find this is the hardest thing to do and did not like it when the two youngest siblings pushed me on my beliefs after my parents died. They caused a major rift in the family.

Yes it is a good exchange and I am sure there are many things we would agree upon.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
I get it, and I can understand the OP, but at the same time, what about worship? What does the NT say about how Christians should worship? What does the NT say about the structure of worship? I does not specifically say.

I think we are given a lot of leeway by the Lord as to how to structure our church services. The main thing is the theme of the church service--Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross and why.
Of course, we all will point to what we believe the NT says about worship, vestments, a priest hood (or not).
Many things done in church services are "adiaphora--neither commanded nor forbidden." Indifferent things. Like ministers wearing albs and stoles. Ladies wearing slacks to church....using silk flowers for decorations instead of real ones. OR even using flowers to decorate the church. Having candles or not having candles.

Whatever we do in our church services should ALL be done to the glory of God the Father through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
 

ziapueblo

Active member
No. I have been to a few Roman Catholic services, though--the first one was in Polish and Latin. :)
Cool! Where was this?

A lot of people see the Orthodox as Roman Catholics without the Pope of Rome. I understand, we share a liturgical form of worship, Sacraments, etc.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Cool! Where was this?

Edwardsville, PA, right before or right after Christmas in 1961. I was 10 then. :) My family and I were visiting my Polish paternal grandparents and we obligingly went to one of their church services with them. My grandpop played the organ. I didn't understand a word of anything. I imagine the services now are mostly in English.
A lot of people see the Orthodox as Roman Catholics without the Pope of Rome. I understand, we share a liturgical form of worship, Sacraments, etc.
Understood. :)
 
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