RCC Clergy Garments

RayneBeau said:
True, and Jesus never wore different attire to indicate anything different or high-ranking about Himself.
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He does in Revelation:) And its awesome! But yes, living as a human on earth there was nothing that drew people to Him. God wanted no advantage given to His Son so that people were drawn to Him by looks or stature or heritage. But those descriptions in Revelation, i love it.
 
Nondenom40 said:
He does in Revelation:) And its awesome! But yes, living as a human on earth there was nothing that drew people to Him. God wanted no advantage given to His Son so that people were drawn to Him by looks or stature or heritage. But those descriptions in Revelation, i love it.
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Thanks for reminding of the following

Isaiah 53:2-3
He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief. Like one from whom men hide their faces, He was despised, and we esteemed Him not.
 
A new day said:
Thanks for reminding of the following

Isaiah 53:2-3
He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief. Like one from whom men hide their faces, He was despised, and we esteemed Him not.
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Exactly what i was thinking of. It doesn't say anything about garments either....gosh what will catholics think??
 
A new day said:
Sorry to say different than you, but every church I have ever attended with exception to the salvation army, and two other churches; has never worn any clothing to differentiate them from the congregation. It isn't hard to differentiate the pastor and other church leaders from the congregation. Their speech and actions during the entire service is on display. Like you have said many times, actions most often speak louder than words.

But so too, actions also speak louder than clothing.
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Sure. There is no reason to wear anything special in your church. Everyone come as you are.
In my Church we are in the presence of the Lord and the clergy and the people dress accordingly.
 
pilgrim said:
Sure. There is no reason to wear anything special in your church. Everyone come as you are.
In my Church we are in the presence of the Lord and the clergy and the people dress accordingly.
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Yep and it is the snobs who often turn people away from church. I mean Jackie Pullinger had to start her own church because the church she attended would accept the drug addicts who were being saved. Gandhi read about Jesus and went to a church where he was told to sit at the back. He left and never investigated Jesus again. Don't know what churches these were but the dress thing isn't important at all.

I mean just picture the scene a hot day on the mountain and the crowds are gathered to hear Jesus speak and he says sorry I cannot go on, you are not dressed correctly.
 
RiJoRi said:
That's assuming nondenom is attending a church with an episcopal form of government. (The other two forms are presbyterian and congregational, none of which should be confused with the church groups of that name.)

BTW, what services does an overseer do that the locals cannot? From what I recollect, the RC Bishop sat in Rockville Center, NY, and popped in for the Confirmation ceremonies.

--Rich
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Bishops approve and ordain men to the Priesthood. They are responsible for appointing clergy in their diocese and ensuring their orthodoxy in teaching. They authorise missionary and evangelical activity and allocate finances for that work. Just like any large organisation, the duty of ensuring cohesion and unity falls on this level leadership. Their garb reflects the respect they have. I remember the anecdote about the Queen Mother visiting bombed out London neighborhoods during the Blitz. Someone asked her why she was dressed up to come and visit them at that time and without a beat she replied, you dress up to come to see me!

For all the constant criticisms of the Catholic Church you can't deny the tremendous charity work around the world that is made possible by the organisation that simply hasn't happened among the myriad of unconnected churches who have reject unified organisation.
 
balshan said:
Yep and it is the snobs who often turn people away from church. I mean Jackie Pullinger had to start her own church because the church she attended would accept the drug addicts who were being saved. Gandhi read about Jesus and went to a church where he was told to sit at the back. He left and never investigated Jesus again. Don't know what churches these were but the dress thing isn't important at all.

I mean just picture the scene a hot day on the mountain and the crowds are gathered to hear Jesus speak and he says sorry I cannot go on, you are not dressed correctly.
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I agree with you. There is nothing special about your church. It's just a building, right? Everybody come as you are.
 
Stella1000 said:
Bishops approve and ordain men to the Priesthood. They are responsible for appointing clergy in their diocese and ensuring their orthodoxy in teaching. They authorise missionary and evangelical activity and allocate finances for that work. Just like any large organisation, the duty of ensuring cohesion and unity falls on this level leadership. Their garb reflects the respect they have. I remember the anecdote about the Queen Mother visiting bombed out London neighborhoods during the Blitz. Someone asked her why she was dressed up to come and visit them at that time and without a beat she replied, you dress up to come to see me!

For all the constant criticisms of the Catholic Church you can't deny the tremendous charity work around the world that is made possible by the organisation that simply hasn't happened among the myriad of unconnected churches who have reject unified organisation.
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Atheist do a myriad of charity works as well, means nothing. Does not cancel out the very bad fruit.
 
Stella1000 said:
Bishops approve and ordain men to the Priesthood. They are responsible for appointing clergy in their diocese and ensuring their orthodoxy in teaching. They authorise missionary and evangelical activity and allocate finances for that work. Just like any large organisation, the duty of ensuring cohesion and unity falls on this level leadership. Their garb reflects the respect they have.
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And yet that leaves a congregation disconnected from the work. They don't have a stake in it. I attended a church where the (deacons?) were going to donate a sum – let's say $1,000 – to a ministry in Africa. Someone suggested telling the congregation of the need, and let them donate. What was collected was something like $2,500 – much more than was planned, and everyone felt like they had helped some fellow believers.

Stella1000 said:
For all the constant criticisms of the Catholic Church you can't deny the tremendous charity work around the world that is made possible by the organisation that simply hasn't happened among the myriad of unconnected churches who have reject unified organisation.
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You're using the pagan concept of weighing the good deeds against the evil. It does not work like that. If someone donates a million dollars to help Haitians, is it OK for them to sexually molest a child?

And you seem to "forget" that it wasn't Fr. Luther who wrote Exsurge Domine, nor the Lollards who dug up and burned Wycliffe's bones, throwing them into the River Swift. Maybe before calling for unity, the RCC should show by their actions that it is worthy of being joined! Better yet, when is the RCC going to apply for membership in the SBC? Unification can work in both directions, ya know!

Finally, the criticisms are against perceived errors in your church. I have no problem with the pope's approval of coffee, nor with the priest who wrote Stille Nacht.
 
balshan said:
Yep and it is the snobs who often turn people away from church. I mean Jackie Pullinger had to start her own church because the church she attended would accept the drug addicts who were being saved. Gandhi read about Jesus and went to a church where he was told to sit at the back. He left and never investigated Jesus again. Don't know what churches these were but the dress thing isn't important at all.
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The church Gandhi investigated was the English Anglican church. He came dressed in his traditional Indian garb and for that, he was told to sit at the back of the church. I guess the folks in this church never read the epistle of James. Gandhi once said that he liked our Christ but not Christians.

I never heard of Jackie Pullinger.
balshan said:
I mean just picture the scene a hot day on the mountain and the crowds are gathered to hear Jesus speak and he says sorry I cannot go on, you are not dressed correctly.
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God looks at the heart, not the outer garb. There are a few men who come to our church dressed in blue jeans, athletic shoes, and pullover t-shirts. Their clothes are always neat and clean and they are faithful members of our church, actively involved in it, and very kind men. Ladies hardly ever wear jeans, but we do wear nice slacks, sweaters, blouses, etc. Some wear dresses, but it isn't required.
 
RiJoRi said:
And yet that leaves a congregation disconnected from the work. They don't have a stake in it. I attended a church where the (deacons?) were going to donate a sum – let's say $1,000 – to a ministry in Africa. Someone suggested telling the congregation of the need, and let them donate. What was collected was something like $2,500 – much more than was planned, and everyone felt like they had helped some fellow believers.


You're using the pagan concept of weighing the good deeds against the evil. It does not work like that. If someone donates a million dollars to help Haitians, is it OK for them to sexually molest a child?

And you seem to "forget" that it wasn't Fr. Luther who wrote Exsurge Domine, nor the Lollards who dug up and burned Wycliffe's bones, throwing them into the River Swift. Maybe before calling for unity, the RCC should show by their actions that it is worthy of being joined! Better yet, when is the RCC going to apply for membership in the SBC? Unification can work in both directions, ya know!

Finally, the criticisms are against perceived errors in your church. I have no problem with the pope's approval of coffee, nor with the priest who wrote Stille Nacht.
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Good points. There are some good priests in the RCC. Back in October, my husband I went on a 13-day Panama Canal cruise. Our last port of call was in Cartagena, Columbia. It was once one of the 4 centers in the New World for the Inquisition. There is even a museum there about the Inquisition. Pretty grisly stuff...anyway, there is a statue of a priest out front of one of the churches there, with, if memory serves, holding a couple of African American slave children in his arms. I don't remember exactly when this happened, but when this priest took over this church, he was appalled at the way the slaves were mistreated. He insisted that they be allowed to worship in the church, same as the white people. Well, the latter were up in arms about that. Our guide drew our attention to the windows in the church, all of which had balconies on them. She said it wasn't to make the church look pretty but the white parishioners built the balconies so they could stand on them during worship services and not be near the blacks in the church during the services. This priest worked tirelessly to improve the lot of the slaves.

Then there is Father Damian, who worked with lepers in the leper colony in Hawaii, working among them so long, that he too got the disease and succumbed to it.

So, there have been good priests.

But there is still just too much that is wrong with the RCC--too many false doctrines are taught; loyalty to mother church is more important than loyalty to the truth and Jesus Christ; Mary is foremost over Jesus Christ; the pedophile priest problem and how it was covered up for so long....
 
pilgrim said:
I agree with you. There is nothing special about your church. It's just a building, right? Everybody come as you are.
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Balshan is a member of the true church of Jesus Christ, since she has faith in Him for salvation, great and free.

As for "come as you are" you might want to read this hymn, by Charlotte Elliot, I think it is:

Just as I am, without one plea,
But that thy blood was shed for me,
And that thou bidd'st me come to thee,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

Just as I am, and waiting not
To rid my soul of one dark blot,
To thee, whose blood can cleanse each spot,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

Just as I am, though tossed about
With many a conflict, many a doubt,
Fightings and fears within, without,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.

Just as I am, thou wilt receive,
Wilt welcome, pardon, cleanse, relieve;
Because thy promise I believe,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come.
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A new day said:
Sorry to say different than you, but every church I have ever attended with exception to the salvation army, and two other churches; has never worn any clothing to differentiate them from the congregation. It isn't hard to differentiate the pastor and other church leaders from the congregation. Their speech and actions during the entire service is on display. Like you have said many times, actions most often speak louder than words.

But so too, actions also speak louder than clothing.
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Well, we will just need to agree to disagree. :) I have been to a couple of churches--not Lutheran--where the pastor was dressed like everyone else, and I didn't know who the pastor was until he started preaching from the dais. Before that, they mingled with the people in the corridor and I had no idea who the pastor was. Of course, the membership did.

But as I stated, pastors wearing or not wearing albs and stoles is still adiaphora--neither commanded nor forbidden; morally neutral. It isn't wrong for pastors to wear albs and stoles or wrong NOT to. I don't think anyone should judge another's church in this matter. It isn't that important, anyway. What is important is what the pastors preach and teach their congregations.

I personally like to see our pastors duded up in their albs and stoles. But wearing albs and stoles does not make them think they are better than anyone else, or privileged, etc. Wearing them reminds them of their calling as pastors and shepherds of the sheep. and the responsibilities in leading their flocks, and the two I asked about this found it very humbling.
 
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preacher4truth said:
The greatest thing He "wore" He wore for us; The Cross, and our sin, and the punishment in our place.

Soli Deo Gloria!!!
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Absolutely! And the crown of thorns that He wore on His head while on the cross--was there ever a more beautiful and noble crown? And the wounds in His hands and side that He kept, to show His disciples after His resurrection, that He truly had risen from the dead.
 
I moved this topic here for free discussion, since other churches besides the RCC have ministers that wear special outer garments during church services. That way, there will be no danger of breaking rule 24 for non Catholics on that board.
 
Bonnie said:
The church Gandhi investigated was the English Anglican church. He came dressed in his traditional Indian garb and for that, he was told to sit at the back of the church. I guess the folks in this church never read the epistle of James. Gandhi once said that he liked our Christ but not Christians.

I never heard of Jackie Pullinger.

God looks at the heart, not the outer garb. There are a few men who come to our church dressed in blue jeans, athletic shoes, and pullover t-shirts. Their clothes are always neat and clean and they are faithful members of our church, actively involved in it, and very kind men. Ladies hardly ever wear jeans, but we do wear nice slacks, sweaters, blouses, etc. Some wear dresses, but it isn't required.
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Oh you should read Jackie's story she worked in the Walled City in Hong Kong and it was full of evil. I wouldn't go there but am amazed by people who can go to those kind of places.

You are so right God looks at the heart only.
 
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