RCs don't like the fruit/actions revealed

balshan

Well-known member
RCs complain about their institutions fruit/actions past and present being used to reveal that the claims made by their institution are false. But scripture is clear that actions/fruit speak.

How does love speak? We have the answer in 1 John 3:18

Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

James 1:22 is clear actions speak about whether we are followers of the word.

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves

James 2:17 shows that our faith is revealed by our actions.

So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 3:13

Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom

Matt 5:16

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 1:16

They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

1 Peter 2:21

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps

This is only a small number of the verses that show that actions/fruit speak. They speak about how we love, who we follow, whether we really know the word, whether we know God,whether we are wise and have understanding.

The actions of the RC institution speak on these things and these things reveal whether their claims of being founded by Jesus are true, whether they are the pillar and foundation of truth and morals. To be what they claim there institution needs to teach the truth but it doesn't, it needs to tell the truth, its leaders have failed on this as well, the actions show they don't know God or follow Jesus.

Why do RCs think the actions of their institution throughout the centuries should be ignored when they tell us so much about it?
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
Why do RCs think the actions of their institution throughout the centuries should be ignored when they tell us so much about it?
The answer is in the question.
For whatever reason, Roman Catholics see their church as what it could have been/should have been. Pointing out any defects conflicts with this idealized view, and raises uncomfortable matters:
If the "Anti-Catholics" are right, then my (the RC's) assessment of the veracity of the RCC is wrong, and I – along with my friends and my family – have been led astray for a long time. But we (friends, family, and church) cannot all be wrong, so the Anti-Catholics must be wrong, even if history and modern events show otherwise.

There are other reasons, but I'll let others have a chance! 😉

--Rich
 

balshan

Well-known member
The answer is in the question.
For whatever reason, Roman Catholics see their church as what it could have been/should have been. Pointing out any defects conflicts with this idealized view, and raises uncomfortable matters:
If the "Anti-Catholics" are right, then my (the RC's) assessment of the veracity of the RCC is wrong, and I – along with my friends and my family – have been led astray for a long time. But we (friends, family, and church) cannot all be wrong, so the Anti-Catholics must be wrong, even if history and modern events show otherwise.

There are other reasons, but I'll let others have a chance! 😉

--Rich
Excellent post, gives one food for thought. It is interesting that revealing the truth immediately makes the resort to name calling others anti Catholic. I am not but anti false teachings, doctrines, wrong action/fruit etc. I mean I know I would be filled with joy if their leaders became real believers and followed Jesus.
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
RCs complain about their institutions fruit/actions past and present being used to reveal that the claims made by their institution are false. But scripture is clear that actions/fruit speak.

How does love speak? We have the answer in 1 John 3:18

Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

James 1:22 is clear actions speak about whether we are followers of the word.

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves

James 2:17 shows that our faith is revealed by our actions.

So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 3:13

Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom

Matt 5:16

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 1:16

They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

1 Peter 2:21

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps

This is only a small number of the verses that show that actions/fruit speak. They speak about how we love, who we follow, whether we really know the word, whether we know God,whether we are wise and have understanding.

The actions of the RC institution speak on these things and these things reveal whether their claims of being founded by Jesus are true, whether they are the pillar and foundation of truth and morals. To be what they claim there institution needs to teach the truth but it doesn't, it needs to tell the truth, its leaders have failed on this as well, the actions show they don't know God or follow Jesus.

Why do RCs think the actions of their institution throughout the centuries should be ignored when they tell us so much about it?
What Catholic has said that they should be ignored?
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
But it could be implied when RCs say don't bring up our fruit/actions/scandals etc, look over there they do it too, Jesus had Judas, there are the tares etc. The fact that 1 Cor 5:11 is ignored is an indicator and no RCs tells us why they eat with these sinners which is against 1 Cor 511.
To my knowledge the priests of my church, the bishop or the archbishop have committed the sins you keep bring up.
 

balshan

Well-known member
To my knowledge the priests of my church, the bishop or the archbishop have committed the sins you keep bring up.
They have because they did not expose it. Scripture is very explicit on that point. By the way are you saying they have committed those sins??
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
They have because they did not expose it. Scripture is very explicit on that point. By the way are you saying they have committed those sins??

These sins happen in almost all churches, but you seem to put just the CC under the microscope.
 
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balshan

Well-known member
These sins happen in almost all churches, but you seem to put just the CC under the microscope.
Yes and you can go to their threads and speak about them. But where do those churches make the false claims of your institution. Oh that is right they don't.

The Royal Commission into child abuse in this country shows your institution was the worse in the country. You stood shoulders above any other institution both religious and secular for the numbers of abuse victims. I was surprised at how much worse you institution was. So pointing over there when yours was the worse is not really helping you prove that those false claims of your institution are true, all it has done is shown the claims false.
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
These sins happen in almost all churches, but you seem to put just the CC under the microscope.
Ephesians 5:1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as beloved children, 2 and walk in love, just as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us as a fragrant sacrificial offering to God. 3 But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. 4 Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. 5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater [pay close attention mariolators]), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
 

balshan

Well-known member
We agree with you the Catholic Church is not the self titled One True Church. For if you actually believed that made up Catholic slogan, you wouldn't need to compare the Catholic Church with other Churches.
The very fact that they compare themselves to others is clear evidence that they are not what they claim to be. It is just a way of justifying behaviours that the true church would never tolerate.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
RCs complain about their institutions fruit/actions past and present being used to reveal that the claims made by their institution are false. But scripture is clear that actions/fruit speak.

How does love speak? We have the answer in 1 John 3:18

Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.

James 1:22 is clear actions speak about whether we are followers of the word.

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves

James 2:17 shows that our faith is revealed by our actions.

So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 3:13

Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom

Matt 5:16

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Titus 1:16

They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

1 Peter 2:21

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps

This is only a small number of the verses that show that actions/fruit speak. They speak about how we love, who we follow, whether we really know the word, whether we know God,whether we are wise and have understanding.

The actions of the RC institution speak on these things and these things reveal whether their claims of being founded by Jesus are true, whether they are the pillar and foundation of truth and morals. To be what they claim there institution needs to teach the truth but it doesn't, it needs to tell the truth, its leaders have failed on this as well, the actions show they don't know God or follow Jesus.

Why do RCs think the actions of their institution throughout the centuries should be ignored when they tell us so much about it?
What exactly is the fruits of your sect?
 

balshan

Well-known member
What exactly is the fruits of your sect?
You see all other denominations are different to the RCC, they do not make the false claims about their institutions being the one true church etc like yours does. If RCs repeat these false claims then the evidence that it isn't what it claims to be can and should be produced.

As I said every time the RC says look over there they prove their institution is not the real church. They real church is not over there.

Yep look at the statistics about over there from the Aust. royal Commission:

Of those abused in a religious institution, 61.4% were in a Catholic institution, 14.8% Anglican, 7.2% Salvation Army and the rest in various denominations

Yep your institution's statistics prove it is worse than over there. It is certainly not His church. RCs seem to forget what it looks like when compared to over therre.
 

balshan

Well-known member
The fruits of His Spirit are to those who follow Jesus who are His church. Unknown and rejected by One True Churchers.
If real believers condemn others for not being perfect then they would also make sure their institution was perfect. RC demand of others what they do not demand of their institution.
 
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