RCs like a work based salvation

Yeah Paul said "not by works" and "Saved by Faith."

Then James said "justified by works and not by Faith alone."

They're not talking about the same thing.

You seem to be as confused about James as Mormons are, so I'll direct you to my response to them:


So who is not listening to the Bible?

That would STILL be you!

Look at what you did...

You RAN AWAY from Eph. 2:8-9...
You RAN AWAY from 2 Tim. 1:9...
You RAN AWAY from Tit. 2:13...
You RAN AWAY from Rom. 4:1-6...
You RAN AWAY from Rom. 9:11-13...
You RAN AWAY from Rom. 11:5-6...

And you CHERRY-PICKED a verse without even exegeting it.

You're like those kidnappers who cut up a newspaper and create their own ransom message out of bits and pieces.
 
So to paraphrase you, the RCC believes that their sacraments don't save, but are instead a PRE-requisite for salvation.
You know, you seem to want to reduce the Christian life to after-life insurance.

The Sacraments aren't about after-life insurance. Think of the Sacraments as signs and symbols of God's presence in the life of the believer in the here and now. They are like extensions of the saving ministry of Christ in the here and now. They are ways the redeeming work of Christ is made present to the Faithful in the here and now so that the Faithful can be transformed by them.

I have always thought of salvation (Heaven) as the end result of our relationship with God in this life. In other words---if we have fellowship with God in this life, then that carries over in the next. If we do not have fellowship with God in this life, then that also carries over in the next. All of the Sacraments, save Baptism and Confession, in some way express the fellowship we have with God that we have. Baptism brings us into God's family and brings us into fellowship with God. Confession restores our fellowship with God when it is broken by sins committed after Baptism.

When the Catholic Faith says that "The Sacraments are necessary for salvation" it means in a relative sense. The only Sacrament absolutely essential for salvation is Baptism. Baptism does two things: it brings us into God's family and gives us fellowship with God. After Baptism, when one has the use of reason, one cannot take themselves out of God's family, but they can break fellowship with God through Mortal Sin. That is where Confession comes in. Confession restores fellowship with God.

Either way---for the Catholic, life in Christ isn't just about making sure our after-life insurance policy is paid up. It is as much about this life as it is the next.
 
They're not talking about the same thing.
Of course, they aren't! They can't be, can they? If they were talking about the same thing--then there would be a biblical basis for Catholicism. And that can't be possible---so----they have to be talking about different things.
You seem to be as confused about James as Mormons are, so I'll direct you to my response to them:

I am not confused. You think I haven't read the Protestant dismissal of James? You think I am unfamiliar with the Protestant explanation? Of course Protestant theologians are going to find a way to harmonize James what Protestant belief.

Fact: if you want to believe something bad enough, you can make the Bible teach it.

That would STILL be you!

Look at what you did...

You RAN AWAY from Eph. 2:8-9...
You RAN AWAY from 2 Tim. 1:9...
You RAN AWAY from Tit. 2:13...
You RAN AWAY from Rom. 4:1-6...
You RAN AWAY from Rom. 9:11-13...
You RAN AWAY from Rom. 11:5-6...

And you CHERRY-PICKED a verse without even exegeting it.

You're like those kidnappers who cut up a newspaper and create their own ransom message out of bits and pieces.
Yep, that is me.
 
Yeah Paul said "not by works" and "Saved by Faith."

Then James said "justified by works and not by Faith alone."

So who is not listening to the Bible?
you aren't. you're listening to the rcc and attempting to twist its teachings into what scripture says. you fail every time.

you still don't know / understand the difference between the 2 teachings.

Paul was speaking to Gentiles, James was speaking to Jews, who did understand a 'doing works' religion - Judaism. catholicism is much like Judaism in 'doing' to keep 'the law'. man-made laws, not those of God.

Jesus sets the captives free.
 
Agreed. But Catholics never said Baptism means you will be saved-----once you reach the age of reason and are capable of sin.

Baptism makes one part of God's family. But if the person who becomes part of God's family does not convert, Baptism won't save them.

Again, to use your own analogy and language:

Baptism makes us part of God's family. Baptism does not, however, entail we will enjoy fellowship with God. Fellowship with God is what is necessary for salvation. So you are right; "getting wet" doesn't entail one has a relationship with Christ. "Getting wet" makes one part of God's family, and thus, makes fellowship with Christ possible.
This sentence is word salad as some say. So you can be part of Gods family yet not converted? That may be catholicism but its not christianity. And how many times over the years have we heard 'baptism saves'? Its the primary mode of salvation in your church yet here you are saying 'baptism won't save them.' The theology of the rcc is shifting sand indeed.
 
Of course, they aren't! They can't be, can they?

You are very cynical, condescending, and insulting.
Can I ask why?
And if that's what the RCC produces in people, can you explain to me why I would EVER want to be part of such an evil and unChrist-like organization?

I'm not sure why you say, "Of course they aren't".
You see, I read them for MEANING.
I read them for SINCERITY.
I read them to get the author's ORIGINAL intent.

I don't simply twist them to support my theology, like Romanists do.

The point is if they were referring to the same thing, then the Scriptures would be contradictory.

If they were talking about the same thing--then there would be a biblical basis for Catholicism.

Wrong.
If they were talking about the same thing, then they would be contradictory, and there would therefore be NO "biblical basis for Catholicism".

Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, 9:11-13, 11:5-6, etc. etc. ALREADY refute Catholicism eight ways to Sunday.

That's why you keep RUNNING AWAY from them.

And that can't be possible---so----they have to be talking about different things.

Thank your sharing the bankrupt way YOU approach Scripture.
But that is not how true Christians approach Scripture.

I am not confused.

You're either confused, or intentitonally misrepresenting and being cynical and condescendinig.
Which is it?

You think I haven't read the Protestant dismissal of James?

Since there IS no "Protestant dismissal of James", you are either confused, or intentionally misrepresenting.
Which is it?

You think I am unfamiliar with the Protestant explanation?

It seems obvious that you are.

Of course Protestant theologians are going to find a way to harmonize James what Protestant belief.

Why are you constantly so uncharitable?
We don't "harmonize James what [sic] Protestant belief".
We harmonize James with the BIBLE.

But again, thank you for presenting YOUR biased tactics, and falsely trying to project them onto Protestants.

Fact: if you want to believe something bad enough, you can make the Bible teach it.

I'm sorry you believe that.
I don't.

In fact, YOU are proof that your claim is false, since YOU can't "make the Bible teach" PV, IC, BA, or any of the other Marian doctrines.

So you just refuted yourself!
 
stop spamming the same post.

God doesn’t grant dead faith. The narrow path is the one Christians are already on.
Your works don’t lead you to it.
It’s “narrow” because the only way is via Jesus.
But the narrow/hard path has to be traversed, right? Traveling this path that leads to life is a work.
 
You’re either traveling the narrow road or you’re on the wide one.
If you think you are simply “on a path” to life, then you’re on the wrong path.
Those on the narrow road already have eternal life.
Where does scripture say that those on the narrow road already have eternal life?
 
does the rcc now teach you that is the way to get time off of a stay in purgatory?

Traveling the path that leads to life is a work. So how can we be saved by faith alone if we have to travel the path that leads to life?
 
The Council of Trent made the traditional meaning clear at the time of the new interpretations...

But when the Apostle says that man is justified by faith and freely, these words are to be understood in that sense in which the uninterrupted unanimity of the Catholic Church has held and expressed them, namely, that we are therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation and root of all justification, without which it is impossible to please God and to come to the fellowship of His sons; and we are therefore said to be justified gratuitously, because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification. For, if by grace, it is not now by works, otherwise, as the Apostle says, grace is no more grace.



The confident boasting was manifesting as a problem for the Reformists interpretation and Trent also addressed that...

AGAINST THE VAIN CONFIDENCE OF HERETICS​
But though it is necessary to believe that sins neither are remitted nor ever have been remitted except gratuitously by divine mercy for Christ's sake, yet it must not be said that sins are forgiven or have been forgiven to anyone who boasts of his confidence and certainty of the remission of his sins, resting on that alone, though among heretics and schismatics this vain and ungodly confidence may be and in our troubled times indeed is found and preached with untiring fury against the Catholic Church. Moreover, it must not be maintained, that they who are truly justified must needs, without any doubt whatever, convince themselves that they are justified, and that no one is absolved from sins and justified except he that believes with certainty that he is absolved and justified, and that absolution and justification are effected by this faith alone, as if he who does not believe this, doubts the promises of God and the efficacy of the death and resurrection of Christ. For as no pious person ought to doubt the mercy of God, the merit of Christ and the virtue and efficacy of the sacraments, so each one, when he considers himself and his own weakness and indisposition, may have fear and apprehension concerning his own grace, since no one can know with the certainty of faith, which cannot be subject to error, that he has obtained the grace of God.
Do you honestly think that we care anything about Catholic writings? We reject them as they are nothing more than the blind leading the blind. We aren't the least bit concerned about your catechism, your magisterium and your Popes who lied and committed numerous crimes. They are the heretics!

The message your institution sends is:
 
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